[Cambo]

So I am trying to decide on a long gun, and I'm all over the place. I am factoring in cost, ammo cost, ease of disassembly/maintenance, New Jersey laws (and possibly future laws), and others. The contenders:

Ruger AR556
Pros: cost, ammo cost(not too bad), familiar with maintenance
Cons: NJ may ban semi auto rifles with one feature (pistol grip)
Wildcard: I could convert it to pump action should the law change.

CZ Scorpion
Pros: looks, ammo cost, easy maintenance
Cons: very expensive(especially compliant versions), needs new grip/trigger springs/safety, would be impossible to make legal if the wrong laws pass
Wildcard: It would probably be my number 1 choice if circumstances were right.

Ruger PC Carbine
Pros: cost, ammo cost, mag cost (Glock), good reviews, will be NJ legal
Cons: maintenance looks to be a pain
Wildcard: I found a gunsmith very close to me that could clean it every so often.

Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22
Pros: cost, ammo cost, had one before, super easy maintenance
Cons: If the law changes, it will be hard to make it legal. Also, no real defensive capability.
Wildcard: I could sell it to my stepson in Pennsylvania if I had to.

Mossberg 590 MagPul Edition
Pros: good defensive capability, easy maintenance, no worries about semi auto laws.
Cons: ammo cost, indoor range could stop allowing shotguns, not really for target practice
Wildcard: I don't shoot long guns too often, it may be the best practical choice.

Just to put it out there, moving out of New Jersey is not an option. I tried it for 3 years in Texas, and it was an absolute nightmare. Literally the worst 3 years of my 45 year life. My career and business are here, no matter what.

 

[Cambo]

Buy the gun you want, now, and worry about legalities later

Cost of the gun shouldn't matter much. Buying what you really want has a much longer term satsifaction.

Over time the cost of ammo tends to diminish the original gun purchase cost.

If you are poor and aren't going to shoot much, then cost matters. But if this is your hobby, I encourage you to buy what you want and enjoy it.

If a hobby, buying the more expensive gun just means, for example, buying one gun every 2 years instead of one cheap gun every 1 year.

When the cheap gun happens to be the one you want, then bonus.

Don't let cleaning keep you from a gun, I'm sure you'll figure it out. It may factor into a preference, but don't let it be a fear. Part of the hobby is learning about the various guns.

Glad I could be of little to no help at all As long as you gave a place to shoot it, buy it. That could be a factor in caliber choices.

You've given me a lot to think about. :supergrin:

 

[Cambo]

15-22 is amazing and worth a serious look.

I do miss my old one, it was painful to sell that in TX.

 

[Cambo]

The Ruger PCC is a great choice and would be my #1 purchase based on your list and reasonings. Sharing magazines and ammo is winning!

I don't currently have any Glocks, but the easily found mags, shared ammo with my pistols, and low price of the PC are strong points for sure.

 

[Cambo]

Living in Jersey limits your choices. I'd shy away from those needing special (neutered) magazines or changes in action (AR types, etc). Also, law changes would be a real concern for me if I lived there. Something fairly inexpensive? No problem. I'd hate to invest a lot of time and money only to have the state complicate things. We are talking about Jersey.

The Ruger PCC seems really fun and should have factory mags that will qualify. The Mossberg maybe. A shotgun is great for sitting in the corner, just in case. It doesn't sound like you'd get much enjoyment out of it. :dunno:

Even living in a "free" state, I'm about done with buying more semi-autos. My bases are covered.

I too am more of a handgun guy. The pistol caliber carbines are a lot of fun tho. The added bonus is they are allowed on many indoor pistol ranges. I have a Rossi 92 in 357 Magnum. It is quite fun and offers a real step up in ballistics from a revolver. They match perfectly with my wheel guns.

Here is number one on MY list for a long gun:

https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/big-boy-color-case-hardened/

The Big Boy Carbine in 357 Magnum. Color case hardened. A little lighter than their brass guns. Gorgeous. They are made in your home state and should slide through any new laws there. At least for a while.

You've hit on all of my concerns in one post, good job. I do want a Scorpion, but it will be $1200+ with mags and upgrades. An AR will be $800+ with mags and .223 ammo. I would be pissed if I had to get rid of those due to stupid laws. A shotgun won't be shot often. A .22 AR is a cheap loss if the laws change, but can't really double as a defensive weapon.

I think I'm leaning towards the Ruger PCC. Maybe the next one after will be a S&W M&P 15-22.

 

[Cambo]

Pick one of the list of ten that the Army is testing...
MPX or Zenith look interesting.

As soon as all NJ Democrats and liberal NJ Republicans expire. Wait....then no one would be left.:supergrin:

 

[Cambo]

Do you think it will pass without any sort of grandfathering clause?
If so, I would go with the Ruger PC Carbine. I'm biased though. I want one myself because I have no pistol caliber carbine as it stands now. It just seems like a fun gun to shoot. Kind of like the 10/22's big brother.

If they're going to grandfather existing rifles I'd jump on the Ruger or Scorpion since you won't be able to get one in the future.

Just my 2 cents.

No grandfathering. It wasn't allowed in 1990 during the first AWB, wasn't allowed recently with our 15rd magazines, so it won't ever happen. There is no guarantee the AWB 2 will happen, but I know this state well, and it's likely.

 

[Cambo]

Another vote for the Ruger PCC. I purchased one a couple months ago and really like it. I don't understand what you meant by the "maintenance looks to be a pain", but it runs pretty clean and is very easy to field strip or disassemble to clean. No pain at all.

I have watched videos of disassembly where small screws fall out of the bolt. I could see that being frustrating. However, I think I have decided that will be the one, and I appreciate your vouching for it.

 

[Cambo]

If you're committed to living in a Leftist-Nazified state because moving ain't an option, your list omitted one obvious 'long gun' that's 50-states legal, accurate, and still 'combat' effective in the civilian context: the M1 Garand.

Now, instead of the traditional (original) .30-06 chambering, I'd get a CMP 'Special' M1 chambered in .308/7.62. Everything else about the rifle is the same - like the 8-rd enbloc clips. No detachable 'hi-cap' mags to offend your overlords in the N.J. Nanny-state. :upeyes:

.308/7.62 ammo - both mil-surplus and the commercial equivalents, is more widely available and less expensive than '06 FMJ ammo, and - energy-wise - you can run just about any .308 ammo in a 308 M1, whereas in an '06 M1 you're essentially limited to M2 ball-type ammo to safeguard the rifle's gas system (unless you run an adjustable gas plug).

Every American should own at least one M1 to guard the homestead.

Heck, in a few years it could be the only semi-auto rifle that the Peoples State of N.J. lets you own.

View attachment 446388

Think about it ...

You can thank me later.

An interesting idea, but there are no rifle ranges that are realistic options to travel to. The indoor range I go to in PA would allow it, but I don't think it would be fun out to just 25 yards.

 

[Cambo]

I may be biased but yeah.

Damn you, you torture me!

 

[Cambo]

Along the lines of the Mini14 and Garand suggestions, why not look at an M1 Carbine? Should be able to use them on a pistol range (maybe), compact and lightweight for any defensive purposes

That is an assault weapon in the state of NJ, specifically by name. People have fought for decades to get that exempted, but they have failed every time. Prior to the 15rd mag ban, it possessed no assault weapon features, but it was labeled by name. I know, it's all so very stupid.

 

[Cambo]

I’m shocked that someone would choose to live in the commie state of NJ over the free state of TX

I knew this would come up. I lived in NJ most of my life, and built a successful business from 1996 - 2013 (when I moved to TX). I tried to start a new business in TX from late 2013 - late 2016. It was a complete disaster, and I lost $85,000 as a result. The people of TX did not want what I had to offer. I move back to NJ, and restart my old business. Inside of a year, it has been fully restored, and it is even more profitable than when I left it in 2013.

I can make less than $30,000 a year in TX, or $130,000 + in NJ. If those were your options, what would you choose?

Oh, and what good are gun rights/freedom when you have to sell 90% of your collection to pay for food and rent?

 

[Cambo]

That's what I was thinking, but didn't want to seem insulting to Cambo.

I explained above, and tried very hard not to insult the people of TX.

 

[Cambo]

No problem, I completely understand. Your family & business come first, wherever you can be the most successful.

I would assume your cost of living though (taxes, real est. values, etc) is higher in N.J. than in Tx, ... no?

Some things are less, some things are more. Real estate is a lot more in NJ.

It's not just the money either. To have no one interested in hiring you for your service (that's highly valued elsewhere), is very depressing.

 

[Cambo]

I'd pick the Scorpion. I just would. The PCC is cool, but just isn't as accurate as that CZ is. The PCC is awfully easy to inadvertantly dump the mag out in the dirt right in the middle of a string. One must place support hand on forearm, not receiver. Cleaning it isn't bad. Just review the directions a few minutes prior to disassembly. Goes pretty well if you do.

I'd just get the Scorpion owing to its coolness factor.

The Scorpion would be my number 1 pick, but I don't want the stress of whether or not it will become illegal. Maybe I'll buy one down the road when we get our next do nothing Republican governor. It's already rumored that Democrat Filthy Phil Murphy won't seek a second term.

 

[Cambo]

If I lived in NJ and was on a limited budget
I would get,
a good 12ga, not one with a bunch of crap
hanging off of it, maybe just a light,

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411557726/Mossberg+590+Marinecote+Tactical+12Gauge+6+1+18.5in

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog..._id/4479/Mossberg+590+12g+18+7R+Cylinder+Bore

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/81179/Mossberg+590A1+12GA+9RD

This gun can drop a six hundred lb elk at 150 yards easy,
with the right ammo,
and be down loaded with 38sp, can also shoot your handgun
ammo, the new ones are much better than the old ones,

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/56503/Rossi+357+Magnum+Lever+Action+w/20+Round+Stainless+Barrel/W

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/56504/Rossi+357+Magnum+Lever+Action+w/16+Round+Stainless+Barrel/W

Here is some good handguns to go with your 357 lever gun,

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_21_49_1814/products_id/70241/Ruger+5719+SP101+KSP-331X+5RD+357MAG/38SP++P+3

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/70266/Ruger+GP-100+357+Mag+4in,+Satin+Stainless,+and+Rubber+Grips

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_21_49_1814/products_id/70260/Ruger+1707+GP100+KGP-161+6RD+357MAG/38SP++P+6

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/48996/Ruger+GP100+357+6IN+7RD+SS+BLK+RBR/WD

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...0+.357+Mag+4.2+7+Shot+Fiber+Optic+Front+Sight

Here is two more 357s that I like, we like the 6.5''
one best, we shoot long range and hunt with them,
these also shoot 9mm,

https://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/specSheets/0310.html

https://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/specSheets/0320.html

I would not get any 22lr AR, the sights are too high
for small game, that is what a 22lr is for, this is a
very good 22lr,

https://www.ruger.com/products/1022Carbine/specSheets/1256.html

You may want to get the usual great guns like an
AR and hi cap pistol and keep them at your friends
house in Pa if things go bad,

You can build a great AR for around 400 to 450 dollars
from PSA, I have built many of them and tested some
at long range, 300 and 600 yards.

If you only have two thumbs, some good options,

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-stealth-lower.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...rifle-kit-with-rear-mbus-flat-dark-earth.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...de-moe-ept-rifle-kit-rear-mbus-516444983.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-7-stainless-steel-moe-freedom-rifle-kit.html

I have also tested many of the Ruger 357s at 100 and
two hundred yards, that is what I did for a living.

Every six inch SS GP100 and 6.5'' SS BH in 357
we tested,
did UNDER four inches at 100 yards, some under
six inches at 200 yards, with good loads.

Thank you for that effort!

 

[Cambo]

Sorry I can't offer any helpful advice but when reading this thread all I kept thinking was how sad it is, profoundly sad, that when contemplating the purchase of a new firearm you have to take into consideration FUTURE laws further restricting our 2a rights.

I can't believe how things have changed in my 54 years. Our country was built on the foundation of individual liberty, freedom to pursue what's in our own personal interest as long as we don't harm others, and GOD GIVEN inalienable rights.

For the moment there's a disturbance in the force but it seems we're moving inexorably towards a country that's new foundation is the government knows best and you better go along to get along or you'll be eliminated.

I couldn't have put it better. If it makes you feel better, NJ has been restricting gun rights since 1966. It's a very old story here.

 

[Cambo]

OP, something to think about, yes we all should have
some guns for different reasons but things have been
different since the early 90s.

When I started shooting, early 60s, and started reloading,
66, was ten years old, we never worried about not finding
ammo or reloading components, things are different now.

I believe we all should not only have guns but should be
able to cast and reload, you will save in the long run and
will probably not run out of ammo. If you stock up.

Many rounds can be made for four to six cents a shot and
you can tailor loads to different applications, like in a 223
rifle.

Some of my 223 loads are a cast boolit at 900 fps and are
very quiet and cheaper than most 22lr ammo, some are
around 2000 fps and replace the 22 win mag, and some
can be made much faster and will function in an AR15.

This design boolit can be used in many 22 CF cartridges and
at different velocities,

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/point225-diameter-2-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690459/point225-diameter-6-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

This is not unique to a 22 center fire, all calibers can do it.

Maybe spending money on reloading and casting would
be a good idea and kind of an insurance policy, be a boy
scout, be prepared.

I have thought about reloading before, but there are two issues:
1. I don't know if I have the patience and precision for it. I have seen the aftermath of double charged loads.
2. My current work schedule is 7 days a week, with varying hours. I usually get up at 4 am, and finish around 8 or 9 pm, except Sat/Sun where I am done around 3 or 4 pm. I am able to shoot twice a month for about an hour - not due to money, but time. Time in between appointments is filled with short naps, paperwork, program design, and scheduling.

Reloading is something I'll consider when I retire.

 

[Cambo]

I agree 100 per cent and I don't understand why anyone would think that the only "Long Guns" worth considering are AR's, pistol caliber carbines, or a shotgun, although a shotgun is useful for short range and can also be used for it's intended purpose of wing shooting.

But a Garand is a REAL long gun and in the original caliber it's not all that more expensive than 308 and adjustable gas plugs are a simple modification and allow you to shoot any ammo.

In 308 caliber the one gun that I would recommend for anyone willing to think outside the box, the gun I would recommend would be an older Remington 760 or 7600 Gamemaster pump-action rifle. They are clip-fed hold 5 rounds but 10 round mags are available. They can be operated as quickly as a semi-auto and I would not recommend the model 740/7400 semi-auto version because they have extraction problems that the pump action version does not.

As I said earlier, any caliber over .223 is probably a waste at 25 yards. But I have looked into the Troy Pump Action AR as the ultimate FU to NJ. Folding stock, pistol grip, flash hider, etc.