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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So...my permits have been applied for, and I have contacted my FFL who is looking for a G20SF for me.

I have been thinking about carry ammo, and have made up my mind I want a full power load, perhaps something from Swampfox. This gun will primarily be carried for woods/night hunting/bear protection. Though, I am mandated by the LE agency I work for to carry jacketed hollowpoints. I would like something for serious penetration on bear, but it also needs to double as a two legged predator load. I was originally considering the Swampfox 200 grain load XTP at 1240 fps. I know the XTP is a high penetration bullet and will hold up well at full power velocities. My dilemma is, it might over penetrate on center mass on 2 legged varmints. Should I back off on weight and go with a 180 grain XTP, or even something lighter like a 155?
 

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You can't carry hard cast bullets while off-duty? If you have to carry hollow points 24/7, I would probably go with a good HUMAN SD round. I would try the 155/165gr Gold Dots, Barnes bullets, 155/175gr Silvertips, or 135gr Nosler JHP. You are probably much more likely to have to use your gun against a human than a bear. You could also use one of those for human SD, then swap to the 200gr XTP for woods SD. However, if you want something with more penetration, that you will carry in ALL situations, the XTPs would be good. I would lean toward the 155gr or 180gr. Even the 155gr bullet penetrates like crazy. Go see my wax tube results in the 10mm Reloading Forum. Even the 155gr XTP passes through the entire tube (about 12-13", which should be around 18-20" in gel/tissue). A factory 175gr Silvertip only went SIX INCHES! So, in my testing, at least, the 155gr XTP penetrated twice as much as a 175gr Silvertip. The 180gr would be a good medium ground, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Definately no hard cast bullets would be permitted. Yes, I am more or less looking for a dual purpose round. I am thinking the 180 XTP, but I will check out your tests for the 155'ers.
 

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They regulate what you carry off-duty? I mean, I guess that makes sense, but I just never knew that.

My old department did and still does. They bought you the gun and the ammo and want you to use only those which are issued to you. Liability I'm sure. Meaning those are the tools which you've been trained in, those are the tools we'll back you up in court with. Something else? Your on your own.:wow:
 

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Wow...all I can say is wow. New Jersey makes their police get permits to carry off duty? I've never heard of this. I have known many cops in Missouri who carried off duty with no permits required, before and after our CCW laws went into effect. I just find that amazing. If you can't trust your police to make good decisions off-duty, why would you trust them to make good decisions while on duty? Must be some kind of blue state legislative logic here that confuses me. :dunno:

Anyway, if you use 180gr or 200gr XTP's, which is what I would recommend for woods/bear, I think you're >90% certain to get a pass-thru on a 2-legged target, with plenty of energy remaining to be lethal. But there's no reason why you can't switch loads when you know you will mostly be in town vs. when you know you will mostly be out in the woods. If you're worried about overpenetration, then carry 135's or 155's when you are in town and save the 180's/200's for woods carry. Not that difficult to swap out a magazine and rack the slide. :whistling:

There has been a lot of hand wringing on the issue of overpenetration. I read an FBI report where their viewpoint was that if only 20% of rounds fired are hitting the intended target, then overpenetration is not as much of a concern when compared to the more numerous NO penetration rounds flying. Even in a firefight, you have to remain conscientious of what lies behind the intended target. Misses only serve as a liability.
 

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Anyway, if you use 180gr or 200gr XTP's, which is what I would recommend for woods/bear, I think you're >90% certain to get a pass-thru on a 2-legged target, with plenty of energy remaining to be lethal. But there's no reason why you can't switch loads when you know you will mostly be in town vs. when you know you will mostly be out in the woods. If you're worried about overpenetration, then carry 135's or 155's when you are in town and save the 180's/200's for woods carry. Not that difficult to swap out a magazine and rack the slide. :whistling:
Given your circumstances this gets my vote. Not to mention you could probably disable a vehicle and or penetrate hard cover with the 180/200 XTP if needed.
 

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I'm shocked about NJ carry laws too. I work in the OTHER Communist state, opposite side, and we can carry anything we want off duty, ammo and pistol. There are no restrictions whatsoever about concelaed carry by an off duty officer either. No permits, forms or cards to carry. If you have a department ID, youre done. Gotta love it, because in this state, its tough to get a CCW permit in most counties. I live in a very conservative, blue collar area and the four counties around me are pretty easy to get a permit. Being able to legally carry anywhere in this crazy-ass state is the best benefit of the job, next to the paycheck.

Our on duty issued pistol is a S&W 4006 Tactical and they issue us top of the line ammo for it. My department doesn't even regulate the type of back-up/court gun, except it must be at least .38/9mm.
 

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My old department did and still does. They bought you the gun and the ammo and want you to use only those which are issued to you. Liability I'm sure. Meaning those are the tools which you've been trained in, those are the tools we'll back you up in court with. Something else? Your on your own.:wow:
You couldn't buy another gun and carry that off duty with with what you wanted?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
They regulate what you carry off-duty? I mean, I guess that makes sense, but I just never knew that.
My old department did and still does. They bought you the gun and the ammo and want you to use only those which are issued to you. Liability I'm sure. Meaning those are the tools which you've been trained in, those are the tools we'll back you up in court with. Something else? Your on your own.:wow:
Yep. Like rcd says, it's all about liability. The armorers have only gone to certain schools, and we must carry an off duty gun from one of these weapon types.

As far as ammo, they want to make sure the guys/gals carry hollowpoints. Not all cops are "gun guys," and many would carry the cheapest ammo they could acquire, or carry full metal jacket rounds because that's what they had on hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Wow...all I can say is wow. New Jersey makes their police get permits to carry off duty? I've never heard of this. I have known many cops in Missouri who carried off duty with no permits required, before and after our CCW laws went into effect. I just find that amazing. If you can't trust your police to make good decisions off-duty, why would you trust them to make good decisions while on duty? Must be some kind of blue state legislative logic here that confuses me. :dunno:
Just to clarify, I am good to go as an LEO to carry here in NJ. The permits are permits to purchase a handgun here. Yes, we have to go through that BS too...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Given your circumstances this gets my vote. Not to mention you could probably disable a vehicle and or penetrate hard cover with the 180/200 XTP if needed.
Good point about penetrating vehicle barriers.

I'm shocked about NJ carry laws too. I work in the OTHER Communist state, opposite side, and we can carry anything we want off duty, ammo and pistol. There are no restrictions whatsoever about concelaed carry by an off duty officer either. No permits, forms or cards to carry. If you have a department ID, youre done. Gotta love it, because in this state, its tough to get a CCW permit in most counties. I live in a very conservative, blue collar area and the four counties around me are pretty easy to get a permit. Being able to legally carry anywhere in this crazy-ass state is the best benefit of the job, next to the paycheck.

Our on duty issued pistol is a S&W 4006 Tactical and they issue us top of the line ammo for it. My department doesn't even regulate the type of back-up/court gun, except it must be at least .38/9mm.
I don't know which state is worse, yours or mine.

It must be nice to be able to carry anything you want off duty. My agency would never allow it..

You couldn't buy another gun and carry that off duty with with what you wanted?
You could, but the LE agencies won't back you in the event of a shooting if you carry something non authorized. This especially comes into play when a questionable, or "high profile" shooting is involved.
 

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Are the ballistics and terminal performances of Swamp Fox 180gr xtp and Swamp Fox 200gr xtp that much different so as to chose one over another for either general purpose or deer hunting ?
Not really, I use the 180 because it is more versatile, covers a broader range of targets types.

It's good against people or animals. But, If I were hunting, I'd probably use the 200xtp even though teh 180 will work fine on Deer.
 
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