The word "civilian"...

Discussion in 'The Furball Forum' started by DrewBone, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. DrewBone

    DrewBone

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    I wasn't quite sure where to post this, and not wanting to unnecessarily derail a recent post in the General Glocking forum about the G17M being available to us regular Joe's that got the wheels of my thought process rotating, I'll ask this question here: am I the only one who finds the word "civilian" when used in relation to firearms, to be somewhat condescending? Perhaps it's my previous bad Long Island, NY attitude that's responsible, as I used to grudgingly watch LE members purchase semi auto "assault" rifles and pistols, high capacity magazines, and more recently even sound suppressors - all for their own personal use, while I, as an honest and law abiding citizen was denied such items due to the NY Safe Act and the long standing illegality of NFA items in NY, other than an AOW that had to be placed on an individual's valid pistol permit, which in itself was an exercise in frustration waiting up to 14 months for a "May Issue" concealed carry permit that was on average only good to and from the range and hunting, unless your Dad was a judge in some Upstate NY county and issued you a "Full Carry" permit?

    I've been living here in NC for the past 3 years, where no such restrictions exist, and it's made a world of difference, especially in regards to my old altitude[sic] - I think - hahahaha. If anything, at least I now feel as if I'm on a level playing field.

    So, have any of you ever felt or feel this way, or am I really just an old curmudgeon with too much time on my hands pondering this sort of thing(?), LOL...
     
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  2. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    LE are civilians as well. They'll argue it to pieces but civilians can quit any time they like. The military cannot.
     
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  3. ranger1968

    ranger1968

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    Actually, Webster, Roget, and almost all the other folks who define words would disagree with you, so your argument is a bit tough to go with...
     
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  4. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    Doesn't change the fact that LE will be subservient to the military and they are considered CIVIL servants.

    Unless they they are under direct control of the military they are civilians.

    The DoD even calls them "Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies"
     
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  5. Dave514

    Dave514

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    Webster's

    civilian

    noun
    ci·vil·ian | \ sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\
    Definition of civilian
    (Entry 1 of 2)

    1 : a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
    2a : one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force
     
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  6. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    Maybe in some countries. Not this one.
     
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  7. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    ...but they'll argue it to death despite what the DoD labels them as and their actual title of civil servant.

    I won't comment past this post because I know how tedious it becomes when feelers get hurt.
     
  8. wprebeck

    wprebeck Have you seen me?

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    Lol, that's funny.

    Last time I checked, civilians controlled the U.S. military, as well. Also, last time I checked, Posse Comitatus prevented the use of active duty military within the U.S., absent certain circumstances. Most often, that's limited to the use of National Guard in disasters, emergencies, to prevent looting, etc. For example, the 223rd MP Co. here in Louisville is placed on active duty during certain events that are associated with the Kentucky Derby. They assist LMPD and my department with crowd control and such.

    Oh, and as far as being subservient to the military - far from it. Incident command is LMPD, and everyone else follows their lead.

    Whoops.
     
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  9. wprebeck

    wprebeck Have you seen me?

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    Forgot to add -

    There are plenty of ways to be discharged without penalty in today's military. Having never served, but coming from a military family AND working daily with dozens of current and prior service, I've heard the stories and tricks. Failure to adapt to military life is the most common "reason" I've heard of used for getting out of active duty. There are more, as anyone with time in knows.
     
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  10. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    https://fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/d5525_5.htm
     
  11. ranger1968

    ranger1968

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    No, this one, actually.
     
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  12. wprebeck

    wprebeck Have you seen me?

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    The DoD can refer to whatever it would like, in whatever manner it chooses. I'm unsure as to when they became the arbiter of the English language...nor am I sure how the presentation of a 33 year old document proves your case.
     
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  13. ranger1968

    ranger1968

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    It's ok to be wrong, no need for you to leave the thread, my friend. You post a lot of good stuff, but on this one the English language is against you.
     
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  14. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    Yes they can. The reason that they do is because LE are CIVILIAN agencies.
     
  15. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    I appreciate that but it always turns into a **** show :supergrin:
     
  16. wprebeck

    wprebeck Have you seen me?

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    According to whose definition? The military?

    Again, when did they become the arbiter and sole decider of the definition of certain words used commonly in the English language?

    Maybe you should read a lawbook, to see exactly how the same word can have different meanings, depending on the explicit statute in which said word is used.

    Out of curiousity, can you point me to a citation that declares the U.S. military as the organization that decides what defines a word? I missed that day in class, as I still use a dictionary.
     
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  17. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    According to the DoD. American law enforcement is considered a civilian agency.
     
  18. wprebeck

    wprebeck Have you seen me?

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    As to the OP - if you find the term condescending, I suppose that's your problem for getting hurt feelings so easily. If you'd like to fall into the category of non-civilian, I don't know an agency that isn't hiring....
     
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  19. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    He'd need to enlist... or get a commission :flag:
     
  20. Dave514

    Dave514

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    When you get just the right people in a thread....

    :popcorn:
     
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