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The "strong, independent woman" myth.

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by gearjammer351, Mar 26, 2010.

  1. gearjammer351

    gearjammer351 EnemyOfTheState

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    OK- not bashing women, just relaying my observations and concerns after dealing with a variety of women in my life. When I was young, I dated a lot. Mostly for sport. However, I did date a lot of women, so I have a broad (but possibly shallow) basis of knowledge about them. Generally, it seemed to me that most of them looked to find a father figure/protector/provider.

    I am currently going through a divorce, but we have been seperated since last summer (she's doing the paperwork- don't ask why it's taking so long:dunno:). When we met, she was a Captain in the British army. She was brash, bossy, and very independent- a 'typical' feisty redhead. We sometimes butted heads, but I wouldn't have wanted it otherwise. I want a Woman- not a girl. If I wanted to be someone's daddy- I'd have kids.

    Last weekend, I went to my (soon-to-be ex) wife's house to do taxes- as it works out best for us to file jointly for '09. She tells me (unbidden) that she is exploring the BDSM 'lifestyle.' She says she is a submissive, and she goes on to say that it isn't about sex; she likes being told what to do- to let someone else be in charge. :dunno: She tells me that her former "tough persona" was a result of social conditioning- being told repeatedly that a 'modern' woman should be this way, but that she is happy to leave that behind.

    This is just the latest of many observations. It seems to me that no matter how "strong and independent" a woman presents herself to be these days, once you scratch the surface, there is a weak, pathetic creature looking to be taken care of. Has anyone else noted this? Is it just me- have I become cynical about it?

    Where are the real Women at!?!
     
  2. tantrix

    tantrix J'aimeLouisiane

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    "Strong and independent" woman usually means she's either a b-tch or a dyke.
     

  3. FLIPPER 348

    FLIPPER 348 Bigfoot enthusiast enthusiast

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    I've got one, strong and independent.
     
  4. jmb79

    jmb79

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    My wife is strong and independant and soft and loving. They are not mutually exclusive traits.

    To the OP, yes, you are being cynical. You cannot reasonably make generalizations about all women based on the singular experience you've described.

    Tantrix, it seems that your experiences have been negative and for that I feel sorry for you. There are many strong, independant, beautiful and nice women in the world who are hetersexual.
     
  5. tantrix

    tantrix J'aimeLouisiane

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    I don't really care for strong independent women anyway, so I'm good to go.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2010
  6. gearjammer351

    gearjammer351 EnemyOfTheState

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    I know I have a tendency towards being cynical, but I've thought this one through pretty well. However, I'm still listening to what other people have to say on the subject.

    Well, the situation I've described with my (soon-to-be ex) wife is not the only example. The reason I brought it up is that it something I've noticed over and over. It's just that this recent revelation has brought it up in my mind again. Obviously I cannot speak of every woman; this is something I've noticed as a trend- not a rule. I want the GT women to understand this too.

    I know it's easy to generalize on subjects like this, but I'd like to have a serious discussion about it (I know it's GNG Lounge- what are the chances:supergrin:).
     
  7. tantrix

    tantrix J'aimeLouisiane

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    If you like the strong and independent types, I have an ex-wife you'd love.
     
  8. gearjammer351

    gearjammer351 EnemyOfTheState

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    :rofl: I bet you aren't the only one who might make that offer!



    So which is she?:whistling:
     
  9. tantrix

    tantrix J'aimeLouisiane

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    The b-tch category. Not like either one is good, but that's the one she fits in.

    Funny this should come up, because when we split it was over this very thing. She wanted to work and take her money and party it all away while I paid all the bills and kept food on the table, and I told her that wasn't gonna fly. So, fast forward a short while later to the last fight we got in, and she she brings up the fact that I didn't want her to be a "strong and independent woman". I said "no, I tell you what...as of right now you got half of it right...your now independent, go pack your sh-t and get out".
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2010
  10. lanternlad

    lanternlad Mythmatician

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    My wife is strong and independent in public, but she's soft and gentle with me. You can't be hard all the time. It's important to be able to let your guard down with someone at home. You can't keep up the tough guy stuff all the time, that's just being a hard-*** for the sake of it. My wife has to be a ***** in her line of work, or she'll get trampled on. (She's a scientist. Females in that field who don't stand up for themselves never go anywhere.) But when she comes home, that last thing she wants to do is be that way with me. I accept her for who she is, both sides of her, and she's the same about me.

    Between you and me, I got the better deal. There is no bigger ******* than I. We often joke that when she dies, she'll go straight to heaven, as she's served her time in purgatory with me. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2010
  11. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Yes, it's just you.

    This is coming from a guy who's divorced, and whose ex-wife gets his ENTIRE SALARY for child support. Seriously. I don't think she's ever really had a job (her stepdad owns a restaurant, and she's on the payroll, but I don't think she's ever set foot inside).

    There are a lot of weak, pathetic women out there--just like there are a lot of weak, pathetic men. There are also a lot of strong, independent, tough-minded women. In my experience tough women are tougher, mentally, than a lot of tough men. I've managed a sales team, and the women were the ones who would work hard and put in long hours without complaining (although they did bring in drama of a different sort). Women succeed in the sciences because they are often able to put ego aside and do their jobs in a way that men (in physics, anyway) seem incapable of. Including me.

    My future wife is much smarter than I am. She's a hard worker and she's independent. Are there times when she wants to be taken care of? Sure there are. Are there times when she wants to be told what to do? Of course. But on the whole, I think calling it a myth is simply hugely ignorant of (I'm not calling *you* ignorant, I'm saying that I think you're "ignorant of" ie you need to meet some) quality women.

    EDITED TO ADD: BTW, sounds like your ex (like mine) is a loon. There are those out there too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2010
  12. gearjammer351

    gearjammer351 EnemyOfTheState

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    The use of the word 'myth' was a bit of hyperbole to get the thread going, but I did explain that I am not trying label all women who behave this way as frauds; it's just that I have seen a lot of it.

    I agree with you that there are many men this could apply to as well, but I don't date men, so that isn't an issue I've dealt with. Since I brought this up in the context of dating/romantic relationships, it's women I'm interested in discussing.

    Yeah- my ex isn't exactly a posterchild for good mental health. She apparently had some issues when she was younger (like being institutionalized:wow:), but she supposedly had resolved her problems long ago-long before we were even married (meaning ~14-15 years ago). I'm not so sure.

    I also agree with you that the sort of women I seek exist. My issue is with those that appear to be that way, but aren't really.
     
  13. stevelyn

    stevelyn NRA Life Member

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    I'm guessing either eastern Europe or Latin America.
     
  14. havensal

    havensal Getting older every day! CLM

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    Women can be just as strong and independent as men.

    Truth is that many people are not as independent as they think they are.

    Look deep into your life and count the people you depend on every day.

    Probably more than you realize. :wavey:
     
  15. RichardB

    RichardB Silver Member

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    "Where are the real Women at!?! "

    Probably hanging out with the real men?
     
  16. TLeath

    TLeath NRA Member

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    I'll have you know that I wear the pants in my family! That is, when my wife says its ok. :embarassed:
     
  17. gearjammer351

    gearjammer351 EnemyOfTheState

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    :upeyes:
    A prime example of why it's so hard to have a mature conversation online. Please return to the X-Box forum while the grown folks have a conversation.
     
  18. Maelstrom

    Maelstrom MiniCapitalist

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    Ooh, wisdom here and in Lanternlads and Devildog's post.

    Actually a productive thread here...So far..
     
  19. Maelstrom

    Maelstrom MiniCapitalist

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    It means it might pay to shop at Target instead of Walmart.
     
  20. sawgrass

    sawgrass

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    gearjammer351, I think this might be an issue of trust.

    I'm a very strong independent woman. I also work in a
    non traditional field. I've never worked with another woman.

    I wear my tough independent side well, but my SO and my
    closest friends get to know someone who is much softer,
    and is willling to let someone do something for them.

    My step mother also comes to mind. My Dad died so she is single
    btw, is also all woman, but she can do anything, usually better than
    most men. It always bugged my Dad that she could outshoot, outfish,
    outhunt, and most of all string an old wooden bow without him.

    That said, if the strong women you meet, let you see that other side
    of them, it's likely because you are kind, and strong yourself. They trust you. Since I work with all men, I can also say, that the relationships I build with some of them are interesting. Since I'm kinda like one of the guys, but not, the guys end up trusting me. I get to hear their thoughts
    on wives, problem, families etc... men are also much softer than you think,
    especially if you take the sexual dynamics out, and they let the ego relax.
    I'm not talking girlie men, I'm talking HVAC service and construction pipefitters. Even they, get tired of the macho persona one in a while.