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With Liberty and Justice for all.
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
We all know that a lot of Americans are taking a big hit and going through hard times with these government mandated shut downs. Tens of millions are out of work and struggling to make ends meet. Lots of small and medium sized businesses are failing and likely going under. Tax revenues for government are way down and essential services will like need to be cut. School kids have lost their spring sports and proms forever. These are all terrible losses that will impact us all.

However, there are even more losses that many probably don't think about. Two of my grown sons are having very difficult times and I want to share them with you.

The oldest is 33 and an alcoholic. He has struggled with his addiction for about eight years. The two things that help give him a fighting chance to kick his addiction are AA meetings and working out at the gym. Guess what: our governor made sure that both of these things are closed down and have been for two months. This son is really struggling and losing his will to keep fighting.

The second son is a manager of a large chain grocery store and he is 32. He's a very social millenial who used to frequently go to restaurants and clubs with his friends. He is a foodie and loves trying new places. He has a great group of friends and hanging out with them was his life outside of work. Now that his entire life is work and nothing else, he is experiencing massive depression and he's not the same kid he used to be.

There has to be hundreds of thousands of others going through these same issues right now. The next time you think that these government mandated shutdowns were a good idea (they weren't) and that they saved lots of lives (they likely didn't), think about the tens of millions who were forced into this fascist socialist wet dream through no fault of their own and are paying a severe price for it.
 

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It's other people's fault that one of your son is receding into alcoholism and the other one is depressed because he can't eat out? Go run outside, workout in your home, have AA meetings remotely, expand your cooking skills at home, talk and text friends, etc.

I'm 31. It's not that hard to have a social life outside of a bar and club.
 

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With Liberty and Justice for all.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It's other people's fault that one of your son is receding into alcoholism and the other one is depressed because he can't eat out? Go run outside, workout in your home, have AA meetings remotely, expand your cooking skills at home, talk and text friends, etc.

I'm 31. It's not that hard to have a social life outside of a bar and club.
Just our POS governor.

You don't seem to have any idea about alcoholism or depression. Good for you. I didn't at your age either. Eventually you will and it's not pretty.
 

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Mr. Awesome
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I’m in the same age group. Sorry to hear your kids are having a hard time. I hope they find a way to get balance.
 

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With Liberty and Justice for all.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I’m in the same age group. Sorry to hear your kids are having a hard time. I hope they find a way to get balance.
Thanks. I'm really not looking for sympathy though. I just wanted to make people aware that there are a lot of people who are hurting needlessly because of government over reach.
 

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Rock_Castle: Sorry for your kids' situations.
You don't accept private messages, so I relate the following.

Someone wiser than I wrote that you can evaluate a society by how it treats its prisoners and its old people. The shutdowns will also be completely meaningless when our society continues to shovel the castoffs into cramped quarters.

Then again, we all have family misfortunes. One day at pre-school, I took a poll. Another guy was raising his daughter alone - wife died. I was raising my son alone - wife died. A grandmother was raising a grand daughter alone - one of the couple died of a drug overdose and the other committed suicide. Now, I have to be a substitute father for a nephew living 500 miles away. Raised by the grandparents from near birth (you don't want to hear the reason) until they died.
 

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This will become a much more serious issue as time goes on. A lot of people discount mental health, call people weak, talk **** about them, and cast stones. People that do that are small and classless. Eventually, there is a very high possibility, they will be dealing with mental health issues. Either themselves or someone than deeply care about.

The fact of the matter is mental health is just as important, if not more, than physical health. If, mentally unhealthy, it becomes much harder to be physically healthy. The repercussions from this whole thing will be far greater than the death count, infected numbers, or economical damage done.
 

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Rock, this the hard thing to understand, those that advocated for and continue to advocate for strong shut down measures only care about 1 thing. CoVid deaths. If it saves just one life, nothing else matters. They are afraid. They know that they can catch CoVid-19, they are confident they they won’t catch depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, starvation, heart disease, etc.... a those things that are not infectious diseases. The only thing that matters is CoVid deaths. A lot of them are retired, and don’t have a job anyway. So it is not like their income just stopped.

3 million starve a year, this will likely cause more to starve because people without jobs stop donating to charities that help keep people from starving. Because they stopped preventative medicine more people that would had cancers early for easier more effective treatment, won’t have it. So more will die, of have rougher treatments. None of that matters, just CoVid deaths.

They have no concept of balance, of opportunity costs..... they only care about CoVid deaths. If 100 million died of starvation due to economic shutdowns globally, the shutdowns will have been a screaming success if just one life is saved from CoVid-19 (especially if it is theirs, or their 95 year old mother in a nursing home). Your involuntary sacrifice is not a problem for them, if it means they aren’t inconvenienced by having to protect themselves from being infected.
 

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I feel for you. My nature is to "fix" so here's my advice.

When I got shut down in March, 30 minutes later I had a 'job' lined up for 18% of my usual salary. I went to work 42 hours a week and worked harder there than at my normal job. So my advice to Son #2 is to find SOMETHING that makes you get out of bed and go to work.

Son #1 should try to replicate what he needs with home gym, running, etc.. and https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/options-for-meeting-online
 

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Sorry to hear of your sons' struggles.
Really, the mental health aspects of this are no joke. My wife is a psych nurse, and she and her colleagues are seeing it daily with new patients with anxiety issues and new and known patients with worsening depression.

My teenage son and his friends are now without sports, social interaction (mostly) and their normal daily structure. Most are not allowed outside even alone. (?) Many are getting quite frustrated and most are becoming anxious about what will happen with school in the fall, varsity sports, college admissions, jobs, driver's licenses... That's a lot for these kids ton deal with. And not all of them have parents with "essential" employment like we enjoy.
 

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Package of hot dogs, bag of split peas to make soup that will last a couple of weeks, been there done that. My sympathy and compassion are nil since my father was an alcoholic as were many of my relatives. Working in the mills and mines did nothing for their health, nor did the farmers in the family have any compassion for those who weren't in their shoes. It is no fun cleaning up the brain matter splattered on the wall! It is not Armageddon!
 

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With Liberty and Justice for all.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I feel for you. My nature is to "fix" so here's my advice.

When I got shut down in March, 30 minutes later I had a 'job' lined up for 18% of my usual salary. I went to work 42 hours a week and worked harder there than at my normal job. So my advice to Son #2 is to find SOMETHING that makes you get out of bed and go to work.

Son #1 should try to replicate what he needs with home gym, running, etc.. and https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/options-for-meeting-online
Thanks for the advice Dave. I appreciate it. Son #1 is more or less homeless, so his options are limited. He really misses working out and showering at the gym. Son #2 goes to work, but the difficult times are when he's not working and he just sits at home depressed. I'm taking him to get carryout at one of his favorite restaurants for lunch tomorrow and hopefully that will help. Haven't seen him since this whole thing started and I miss him. Thanks.
 

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The eBay Guy
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Rock,

From the start, you and I have had some differing opinions on this whole covid thing, but I just want to pass along my well-wishes to your boys, especially the one struggling with addiction. I'm hoping they both get the relief/help they need.

:cheers:
 

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It's other people's fault that one of your son is receding into alcoholism and the other one is depressed because he can't eat out?
Empathy is a quality apparently developed later in life, after one has had ample opportunity to suffer himself. You aren't quite there yet. But the day is coming when you too will suffer, and it will change your paradigm about the suffering of those around you.

"If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together."
- Paul of Tarsus to the church in Corinth, circa A.D. 53.
 

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With Liberty and Justice for all.
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Rock,

From the start, you and I have had some differing opinions on this whole covid thing, but I just want to pass along my well-wishes to your boys, especially the one struggling with addiction. I'm hoping they both get the relief/help they need.

:cheers:
Thanks, Josh. I appreciate it.

Like I said, I'm not looking for sympathy. It's just life, you know? We deal with it. The hardest part for me is that I believe it wasn't necessary to kill our economy like this. I really believe that most of the folks that are listed as Covid deaths would have likely died from a cold, seasonal flu, pneumonia, or something else anyway. A quarantine of elderly people with pre-existing conditions would have likely accomplished the same end without destroying our economy. I recognize that we don't all share this opinion and that's fine. I respect all who are on the other side. Tough times indeed. Thanks again.:cheers:
 

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I completely agree with you. Most people are really stressed out and closing gyms is hard for people to lower their stress levels. I wander what the total for suicides would be for this time if you could ever get an accurate number due to the shutdown.
 

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With Liberty and Justice for all.
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sorry to hear of your sons' struggles.
Really, the mental health aspects of this are no joke. My wife is a psych nurse, and she and her colleagues are seeing it daily with new patients with anxiety issues and new and known patients with worsening depression.

My teenage son and his friends are now without sports, social interaction (mostly) and their normal daily structure. Most are not allowed outside even alone. (?) Many are getting quite frustrated and most are becoming anxious about what will happen with school in the fall, varsity sports, college admissions, jobs, driver's licenses... That's a lot for these kids ton deal with. And not all of them have parents with "essential" employment like we enjoy.
It's taking a toll on our kids. The high school my boys all graduated from had their varsity girls basketball team in the state championship final four. The tournament was then cancelled by the state. Those girls were deprived of a chance to play for a state championship that would have stayed with them for the rest of their lives. The varsity boys baseball team at the same school was defending state champions looking to defend their title with a stacked 2020 team. The season was cancelled and they will never have that opportunity again. This school is in a small town of 30,0000 that really supports their teams. It is a source of much civic pride. All gone because our commie governor closed down our state. Sad. Just sad.
 

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I'm sure this has affected those who plan poorly for the future and live on the edge of their income, but for me this has been a financial windfall.
 

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It's other people's fault that one of your son is receding into alcoholism and the other one is depressed because he can't eat out? Go run outside, workout in your home, have AA meetings remotely, expand your cooking skills at home, talk and text friends, etc.

I'm 31. It's not that hard to have a social life outside of a bar and club.
We're talking about a lot more than being told we can't eat out. We're talking about being stripped of your very freedoms to do much of anything besides work, go to the grocery store, and sit at home. We're talking about being told you can't do any of your hobbies, see friends and relatives, or really much of anything. We've been told it's just for a couple weeks to flatten the curve, then it turns into it needs to be a couple months because even though hospitals aren't being overwhelmed infections are still rising, then it turns into you're being locked down indefinitely because we need to try to save every person we can, no matter the consequences. Leaders are supposed to look at the big picture, not base decisions on emotion/fear or pander to their base.

The economy and people's livelihoods don't matter. People having their medical and dental conditions become worse, develop lifelong complications, and even die because they're being denied medical treatment because we need to keep hospitals empty just in case and conserve PPE don't matter. All that matters is is COVID-19. And there's no real end in sight. Obviously that's going to have a negative impact on a whole lot of people.

Sitting at home texting people isn't having a social life...
 

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I just had a family member die yesterday. Treatment for other health issue was limited because hospital space was saved for COVID and other procedures greatly reduced or cancelled. Not being able to get treatment for other medical issue was contributing factor (and may have been the cause of death timing) to death.

I wonder if this a “COVID death”? He did not have the virus, but the virus still contributed to death.
 
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