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· F.S.F.O.S.
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4,263 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey all... just thought I'd post a pic of a nice buck I snagged here on opening day here in SW Missouri.

I had been in my climber about 15 feet up on a ridge in the deep woods in my hunting area since about first light, maybe 6:15am. It had been a slow morning with not much forest activity other than some gusty winds. I hadn't seen a single squirrel or any other animal all morning. Around 8:30-8:40am, all at once, I caught the fleeting glimpse of a line of five to six does running from my 2 o'clock to my 10 o'clock about 50 yards out through lots of brush. Behind them Pwas a buck with a decent sized body and a smaller rack (common here in this area due to lack of nutrients or simply total deer numbers, we believe). My heart started pumping and I cursed to myself that I hadn't seen them come up in the draw and over the ridge I was on. I quickly grabbed my grunt tube and let out a few grunts brrrrp bbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp brrrrrrrrrrrrrp brrrrp brrrrp and quickly let go of my call to ready for any potention new shot in the next few minutes or hours. Not 5 minutes after all of this, I spot a deer coming towards me through the thick brush about 45 yards over the ridge to me. Heart REALLY pounding now, I extend my arms a bit and snick off the safety to my Dan Wesson Razorback and settle in a bit just in case I get a good shot. I tell myself.... CHILL OUT, BREATHE SLOWLY... concentrate on what I've been practicing at the range for the last two months... breaathhe...... by now the buck that's coming in is walking slowly and putting his nose down to smell... but he's coming almost directly at me! At about 25-30 yards he stops and turns broadside.... once again, my heart is pounding so hard at this point that I can see it in my vision. He slowwwly takes steps moving to my right, broadside and stopping frequently. I find a hole in the brush and place my front Fiber Optic sight on his front right shoulder and concentrate on both IT as well as the hole in my brush and the buck's movement (and any pauses in that movement). At just the right time, I veryyyy easily start rearward pressure on the trigger and wait on the surprise break and following recoil. At the report of the Doubletap 200gr XTP 10mm load, my 1911 recoils hard and, when it returns to battery, the buck is down hard and has dropped like a stone with this shot to the upper chest lower neck area. Not a perfectly optimal area but apparently, quite effective in this case. I take some more breaths and try to catch my breath and steady my hand due to the rush and sit there another few minutes to calm myself before even ATTEMPTING to pull out my phone and call my hunting partner to let him know of my harvest. I ended up taking one more shot because I saw the buck try and lift his head about a minute after the first shot. The second shot, placed as carefully as the first, impacted in the center of the chest. After about 10 minutes (and seeing no movement) I took my time climbing down the tree I was in and walked up to my deer. The first shot appeared to have exited, however, the second shot did not (at least that I could tell). Honestly, I think I might switch to Doubletap's 200gr Beartooth WFN load as I want all of my shots to penetrate and exit EVERY TIME. While the XTP did a fine job putting this decently sized deer down, I'm concerned that his heavier bone structure might have stopped the XTP short (on the second shot) just a tiny bit. (Normally, I dress, skin, quarter, and butcher my own deer, however, this year I was unable to hang this guy anywhere and had no time to do the butchering so we took him in to be processed. I probably won't find out where the bullet went because of this). Still, it's important to note that the XTP did a fine job. I just want an exit every time, even through bones.

Here are a few pics... hope you enjoy.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicke10mm/5174571752/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicke10mm/5174571740/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicke10mm/5174571762/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicke10mm/5174571780/
 

· 10mm defender
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2,398 Posts
Good job bro! Great story as well!
 

· In The Saddle
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11,516 Posts
Very Good story amigo, and nice shooting. You did a great job. Congrats on your buck ! Yes, you will like the Hard Cast bullets even more, trust me! ;)

Again, very well done and congrats !

Enjoy the steaks.



CM
 

· F.S.F.O.S.
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4,263 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Hey there all,

I would like to thank you all for the kind words. I had a lot of fun taking my 2nd handgun deer. The Razorback is a fine hunting piece! Can't wait until my Fusion longslide is finished being built.

Neal - my experience with DT 200gr XTP's are that they penetrate deeply and typically pass through. And by typically, I basically mean every time. This is the first time its happened to me where it DIDN'T pass through all the way. Hunting provides handgun hunters with a unique set of challenges that includes being able to use a relatively less powerful and accurate tool with which to take game. Lots of variables in the hunting equation. I think I just found one of those variables.

Honestly, my choice of bullet really came down to which one was more accurate and the XTP had it. The difference wasn't much, though.

Someday I'll be setup to load my own and maybe I can put some more velocity on that XTP to make it better.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to next week when I'll have a chance to fill my doe tag. :)
 

· Registered
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what happen to the pics?
 

· In The Saddle
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Hey there all,

I would like to thank you all for the kind words. I had a lot of fun taking my 2nd handgun deer. The Razorback is a fine hunting piece! Can't wait until my Fusion longslide is finished being built.

Neal - my experience with DT 200gr XTP's are that they penetrate deeply and typically pass through. And by typically, I mean most of the time. This is the first time its happened to me where it DIDN'T pass through all the way. Hunting provides handgun hunters with a unique set of challenges that includes being able to use a relatively less powerful and accurate tool with which to take game. Lots of variables in the hunting equation. I think I just found one of those variables.

Honestly, my choice of bullet really came down to which one was more accurate and the XTP had it. The difference wasn't much, though.

Someday I'll be setup to load my own and maybe I can put some more velocity on that XTP to make it better.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to next week when I'll have a chance to fill my doe tag
. :)



2 Things: First of all good luck to ya getting your doe next week. I'm sure you will do well. ;)


Second. If you do start reloading, don't be to quick to start running up the velocity on the XTP's. Through our testing, we have found, (more so with the Gold Dot) even with the XTP's, and although they (xtp's) have velocity design for 1600fps, faster is not always better (on impact ! ). Our test have shown the XTP's do not fair as well at the higher vels (at least in the 40/10mm cal).

You called it right about the XTP's acuracy. They usually really are very accurate. Good call and choice.

You also called it right on "Lots of variables in the hunting equation."
As you said, "You found one." Haha. That is how we learn as you know.

Look at CC post 785, then scrolling down each post to the end:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1188579&page=32

Then start "backing up a page at a time" (putting up with some of our horse play inbetween testing) and you will see (as you go backwards) XTP test spread through out. (hope that makes sense) ha.

Although the XTP does have a design velocity of 1600fps. You will find (usually) in the G20 (and like platforms, even your RB) that this bullet is stopped a great deal by bone, and ''especially at longer ranges' out to and including 100-ish yards. Even when pushed to faster vels it does not change that condition.

Because the design velocity is this high, does not insure a good results on impact 'at a given speed'. That is one reason lots of testing to find the "sweet spot," velocity for any bullet design/and caliber is a good idea for the reloader to get the maximum benefit from the bullet, rather than just try to make it a nuclear rocket and feel the need for speed. He may get "that speed" but loose the bullet's "best" performance while doing so.

I shoot mostly, like 99% Hard Cast bullets in every 'hand gun for hunting', including the 10mm. A 200gr HC will, at these ranges, bust and usually splinter bone (causing even more damage) and with that nice meplat cut right through resulting in internal damge and also a nice ammount of blood loss.

The cool thing is. IF the "right HC bullet design is used," you don't have to worry about the bullet coming apart or shedding a jacket, or stopping on impact with bones. There are lousy designs that can tumble in flight, and even 'brand name stuff" can tumble at 'certain weights with certain barrels'. The worst for this are the 220 + gr weight. Also, I shoot a ton of lead through the Stock Glock barrel and have for a very long time. This OEM does not seem to stablize the HC bullets over 200gr's.

An after market barrel seems to take care of this problem pretty well, but I do not see the need for the 220gr HC over the 200gr (although I am totally heavy for caliber guy) because in this case I am sacrificing case space, and velocity I may need for a longer 'down range' hit.

If one is going to stay at 50yds and under 'this is no problem'.

Not to sound confusing here, but the 200gr hard cast 10mm at 1200/1250 fps is very fine for deer, and as stated a moment ago, blows right through at 100yds.

Don't get me wrong please. I like XTP's and they are #2 on the list of what I use in my hunting handguns behind the HC. Also 'If' or when I do carry a G20/G29 'to town', (not often) but when I do, I have 200gr XTP's at about 1150+fps.

Back 'on the ranch', although EDC is 45LC on the hip. IF the G20 sees action, it is back to the 200gr HC again at the vels mentioned above for hunting. If needed for that or 'some other purpose' out here, I know I have a bullet that will get awesome penetration if that was required right quick from a high cap mag gun. There are Illegals abounding in this country, and cover is very thick and brushy at times and in places. So, things 'could get crazy,' and sometimes do! So a deep penetrating hard hitting bullet is /can be needed. (let the reader understand). :winkie:

Plus got this action as well:




Anyway amigo, just an early morning pass the time don't get to revved up about moving this really great bullet (XTP) any faster than what is really needed for a deer especially. The XTP is what it is, and moving the speed up from what you are "currently using," is NOT going to insure better "on impact performance." Botom line here....

You will love this all the more when you do start loading your own, and you will be playing and testing and pullin the trigger till your finger bleeds ! :cool:


Have a great hunt, "again," and be careful and shoot straight. ;)






CM
 

· you savvy?
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23,212 Posts
nice puma pic!


knowing how fast a deer can run, the strength they possess in their necks and hind legs, the lethality of those antlers, knwoing how they can take a chest shot from a 30-30 and still run 100 yards, makes one realise the power of a 120+ pound cat when they see it toting off a full grown buck whitetail.
 

· Ret. Fireman
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4,603 Posts
Nick, Congrats! Good luck with the doe tags too! Best regards!

I have been processing two deer over here...one taken out by car in fog the other given to nephew.

Making lots of sausage!
 

· In The Saddle
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11,516 Posts
Nice post, CM!
I like the XTPs in my .41 mags also.
:wavey:

Thanks !

Although I am a die hard Hard Cast guy, I sure agree with ya on the XTP and the 41/44mags. Very sweet set up. My problem is (besides being stupid at times and selling somethng) I am currently without a 41mag ! :faint:

Closing thought: Those big 300gr XTP "Mags" for the 45LC I load up are very sweet also. Awesome bullet. :supergrin:


Stay safe, and enjoy the 41 mag. At least someone will get to. :)




CM
 

· In The Saddle
Joined
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11,516 Posts
nice puma pic!


knowing how fast a deer can run, the strength they possess in their necks and hind legs, the lethality of those antlers, knwoing how they can take a chest shot from a 30-30 and still run 100 yards, makes one realise the power of a 120+ pound cat when they see it toting off a full grown buck whitetail.

Yes he is nice, but you ought to see his pappy ! We got a good number of these guys on the ranch. They stay fat on sheep from a ranch that borders us on the far back side of the canyons, and every now and then will take down a deer or a calf. We don't get to excited until livestock gets involved then it's time to get rid of it.

They are lightning fast and very powerful as this younger one shows here. I've seen them at 200#'s here and that is big for any where, especially Texas. They have plenty of caves and rocky crags on the place to hold up in and the country is so very rugged and filled with so many canyons and hiding places they got it made.


A full grown lion can take down a pack mule if need be, so that again, shows the power of these cats. That's why the Heavy Hard Cast bullets and 44mag/45LC's on the hip in this country when horse back workin through brush, and the 10mm stuffed with 200gr HC bullets and extra mags in the saddle bags. Ya never know from lions to Illegals, what your going to encounter out here.


A few pics just for fun:







EDC L to R: 335gr 45LC Hard Cast. 275gr 44mag HC. 200gr 10mm HC.








I sure wish he would have taken a doe though instead of that 8 point ! :supergrin:




Stay safe all !





CM
 

· F.S.F.O.S.
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4,263 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
....
[/B]Second. If you do start reloading, don't be to quick to start running up the velocity on the XTP's. Through our testing, we have found, (more so with the Gold Dot) even with the XTP's, and although they (xtp's) have velocity design for 1600fps, faster is not always better (on impact ! ). Our test have shown the XTP's do not fair as well at the higher vels (at least in the 40/10mm cal).
....

Anyway amigo, just an early morning pass the time don't get to revved up about moving this really great bullet (XTP) any faster than what is really needed for a deer especially. The XTP is what it is, and moving the speed up from what you are "currently using," is NOT going to insure better "on impact performance." Botom line here....

CM


Thanks for the response, CM.

I am quite well aware of not needing to drive a bullet past its "prime" velocity and I know that there is even a possibility that the XTP at a higher velocity could, in some cases, actually DECREASE penetration, however, I think that moving the DT 200gr XTP from where its at (~1150fps actual velocity) to 1275fps (actual velocity) would generally be a good thing. Not an absolute requirement but if I were reloading I'd probably load to this level. As I understand it, this can be safely done with a few different powders and it should be much easier to do this when I get my Fusion due to the 6" tube it will sport. I'm not at all trying to hurt myself or blow a hand off and would obviously work up to the optimum loads. I'd find time to chrono the load and test the penetration and expansion, as well.

As for Beartooths, I would also think that a nice WFN BTB running at 1300-1400fps (actual velocity) would be optimal to increase the size of the crush cavity due to higher speed.

Anyways, I can dream about being able to reload my own 10mm stuff :) Someday (hopefully soon) I'll splurge and grab a press, dies, powder, chrono and primers and maybe 1000 new pieces of Starline and 'go to town'. Until then, I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

:)
 

· In The Saddle
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11,516 Posts
Thanks for the response, CM.

I am quite well aware of not needing to drive a bullet past its "prime" velocity and I know that there is even a possibility that the XTP at a higher velocity could, in some cases, actually DECREASE penetration, however, I think that moving the DT 200gr XTP from where its at (~1150fps actual velocity) to 1275fps (actual velocity) would generally be a good thing. Not an absolute requirement but if I were reloading I'd probably load to this level. As I understand it, this can be safely done with a few different powders and it should be much easier to do this when I get my Fusion due to the 6" tube it will sport. I'm not at all trying to hurt myself or blow a hand off and would obviously work up to the optimum loads. I'd find time to chrono the load and test the penetration and expansion, as well.

As for Beartooths, I would also think that a nice WFN BTB running at 1300-1400fps (actual velocity) would be optimal to increase the size of the crush cavity due to higher speed.

Anyways, I can dream about being able to reload my own 10mm stuff :) Someday (hopefully soon) I'll splurge and grab a press, dies, powder, chrono and primers and maybe 1000 new pieces of Starline and 'go to town'. Until then, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. :)

Well that is one of the wonderful things about hand loading, everyone has the opportunity do 'have his way,' kinda like a hamburger joint. Wasn't trying to change your ways amigo, just giving you some suggestions from my experience with it all. ;)



Stay safe, and good shooting !




CM
 

· F.S.F.O.S.
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4,263 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well that is one of the wonderful things about hand loading, everyone has the opportunity do 'have his way,' kinda like a hamburger joint. Wasn't trying to change your ways amigo, just giving you some suggestions from my experience with it all. ;)

CM
Understood sir. You're always welcome to post in my thread, buddy!
 
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