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Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Restless28, Jan 13, 2013.
He can try, but he will fail. He's saber rattling.
If what I have read and what I have watched recently is correct and I understand it correctly if the EO goes against the 2nd it is illegal and he can be removed from office for doing so. It might take a court ruling to do so but should be doable.
When has any compromise of our gun rights ever done more good than harm?
And, which of the most recent mass shootings would have been prevented if private sales were illegal?
Reid just said on Friday that he has the votes to pass it in the Senate, but not the House.
Expanded backgrounds checks sounds fine in theory, but in practice it will end being linked computerized databases without congressional or judicial oversight that create a national proto-registration database. Liberals are NEVER satisfied with what they ask for...no matter how many assurances they offer up, calling us unreasonable, they get upset again and demand something even further in a few years. After decades of compromises to them, they're getting into their endgame here - it's time to stop playing their game on this and every other issue.
Not only that but once they have a stranglehold on gun transactions all it takes is minor inconspicuous legislation attached to some other bill to tighten the noose time and again. Like in 86 but a different tool would be in place.
This is essentially giving the government complete control over who can buy and sell a gun. Instead of a grand debate it can happen in tiny bits.
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Spcwes, here's one for that asylum idea of yours, Nvrl8t:
"BTW, member since 2006 and you have 12 posts and this subject brought you out of your slumber to post ad nauseam. I smell a rat, er, troll."
I think extreme paranoia should be grounds to be committed and deny firearms. What do you think, Spcwes?
Truthfully, I don't know who is worse to reason with, extreme right-wingers or extreme anti-gun people. They both demonstrate the same level of irrationality on opposite ends of the issue.
I've probably done more for gun rights than Nvrl8t and quite a few others on this forum. As I say I've been an NRA member for 26 years. I've mailed plenty of personal checks to the NRA-ILA. I volunteer part of the summer as a rifle and shotgun instructor at Boy Scout camps. I've introduced around a dozen adults who had never before fired a gun to shooting sports. And I try to have polite, rational conversations with people who disagree about guns. I might not convince them to buy a gun and join the NRA, but at least I show them that gun owners aren't "nuts."
So before anyone questions my commitment to the Second Amendment, you better have done at least as much as I have to protect it. Running your mouths and declaring that you won't "compromise," doesn't help a damned thing. If a ban ever is implemented, you will forget all about your commitments to fight to the death, "pry your cold dead fingers from around it," and all of that BS. You're not going to endanger your family, endanger yourselves, give any future dictator an excuse to confiscate not only your guns, but your homes.
Grow up and join the real world. Stop giving people on the other side justification for their "gun nuts" insult. Try to act like grownups.
This is a rational concern, expressed like a rational person:
"Not only that but once they have a stranglehold on gun transactions all it takes is minor inconspicuous legislation attached to some other bill to tighten the noose time and again."
I'd like to see gun owners address this concern. How can we have background checks but ensure this can't happen? We trust our government enough to post our suspicions of the government online, so we must believe there are sufficient protections in place for the First Amendment. Surely, there is a way to have background checks and also ensure that anti-gun politicians can't use it as a future weapon against gun owners.
If anyone thinks they are not after your guns, you have a mental disorder. Obama will go down as one of the worst presidents ever.
What we are seeing now is just the BEGINNING of the onslaught to eradicate the 2A, not the ending.
I never have, and now certainly never will, vote for a democrat. They can all go to hell.
Without question, the most thoughtful and truthful post I've ever read.
I would tend to agree.
Yes, we must always remember that they are incrementalists. They will try to take away our rights, bit by bit, as fast as they can.
Obama dislikers (haters): Just realize that if there are gun bans/restrictions, it will be because Republicans in the House lost their nerve. The President cannot do this alone. The Democrats in Congress cannot do this alone. Whatever the President can do by executive order will be minor compared to what could happen in Congress if the Republicans get weak knees.
It's the Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats who need phone calls and email messages to remind them where they are getting their votes.
We're all doing that, right?
Fast and cheap?
The article in the Daily Kos is worth reiterating. Please read carefully, every day if necessary, until you get the name of the game. It's the way to go for the anti 2A
"Daily Kos Dec 21, 2012
The very first thing we need is national registry. We need to know where the guns are, and who has them. Canada has a national firearms registry. We need to copy their model. We need a law demanding all firearms be registered to a national database. We need to know who has them and where they are. We need to make this as easy as possible for gun owners. The federal government provides the money and technical expertise, and the State police carry it out. Like a funded mandate. Most firearms already have a serial number on them, so it would really be a matter of taking the information already on the ATF form 4473 and putting it in a national database. I think about 6 months should be enough time.
Along with this, make private sales illegal. When a firearm is transferred, make it law that the registration must be updated. Again, make it super easy to do. Perhaps over, the internet. Dealers can log in by their FFLs and update the registration. Additionally, new guns are to be registered by the manufacturer. The object here is to create a clear paper trail from factory to distributor to dealer to owner. We want to encourage as much voluntary compliance as possible.
Now we get down to it. The registration period has passed. Now we have criminals without registered guns running around. Probably kooky types that "lost" them on a boat or something. So remember those ATF form 4473s? Those record every firearm sale, going back twenty years. And those have to be surrendered to the ATF on demand. So, we get those logbooks, and cross reference the names and addresses with the new national registry. Since most NRA types own two or (many) more guns, we can get an idea of who properly registered their guns and who didn't. For example, if we have a guy who purchased 6 guns over the course of 10 years, but only registered two of them, that raises a red flag.
Now, maybe he sold them or they got lost or something. But it gives us a good target for investigation. A nice visit by the ATF or state police to find out if he really does still have those guns would be certainly warranted. It's certainly not perfect. People may have gotten guns from parents or family, and not registered them. Perfect is the enemy of pretty darn good, as they say. This exercise isn't so much to track down every gun ever sold; the main idea would be to profile and investigate people that may not have registered their guns. As an example, I'm not so concerned with the guy who bought that bolt action Mauser a decade ago and doesn't have anything registered to his name. It's a pretty good possibility that he sold it, gave it away, or got rid of it somehow. And even if he didn't, that guy is not who I'm concerned with. I'm concerned that other guy who bought a half dozen assault weapons, registered two hunting rifles, and belongs to the NRA/GOA. He's the guy who warrants a raid.
So registration is the first step. Now that the vast majority are registered, we can do what we will. One good first step would be to close the registry to new registrations. This would, in effect, prevent new guns from being made or imported. This would put the murder machine corporations out of business for good, and cut the money supply to the NRA/GOA. As money dries up, the political capital needed for new controls will be greatly reduced.
There are a few other things I would suggest. I would suggest an immediate, national ban on concealed carry. A ban on internet sales of guns and ammunition is a no brainer. Microstamping would also be a very good thing. Even if the only thing it does is drive up costs, it could still lead to crimes being solved. I'm willing to try every advantage we can get.
A national Firearms Owner Identification Card might be good, but I'm not sure if it's necessary if we have a national database. We should also insist on comprehensive insurance and mandatory gun safes, subject to random, spot checks by local and federal law enforcement.
We must make guns expensive and unpopular, just like cigarettes. A nationwide, antigun campaign paid for by a per gun yearly tax paid by owners, dealers, and manufacturers would work well in this regard. We should also segway into an anti-hunting campaign, like those in the UK. By making hunting expensive and unpopular, we can make the transition to a gun free society much less of a headache for us.
I know this seems harsh, but this is the only way we can be truly safe. I don't want my kids being shot at by a deranged NRA member. I'm sure you don't either. So lets stop looking for short term solutions and start looking long term. Registration is the first step.
Tell Pres. Obama and democrats in congress to demand mandatory, comprehensive gun registration. It's the only way we can ban guns with any effectiveness"
Our Dear Leader has already earned that distinction/title
The difference is police do not support gun control and would not participate in sting operations against gun purchasers.
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Where have you been? That thought was established by the second year of his first term.
Back door registration is the first step of
We older folks fought that tooth and nail. I guess you youngers never got the picture. Oh well.
Holy crack smoke Batman!