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The Panic of 2013 Ends Tuesday

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Restless28, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Tippyman

    Tippyman

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    Reading back it looks like some of you thought the same thing... Doesn't take a genius to figure out that game plan.

    That's what's so dangerous about "little compromises!"
     
  2. TeoK

    TeoK

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    Criminals get their guns from burglary.

    Some criminals get their guns from burglary, and some get them from private sales. Can you tell if a guy is a criminal or insane the first time you meet him? I can't.

    Insane people voted for Obama

    62,611,250 Americans are insane? That would be a lot of NICS denials.

    Really want to protect people ? Bring back vehicle inspection.

    Not a bad idea, as long as the inspections were reasonable. I'd also like to see the gov'mint ban cell phone use by drivers.

    Hell, abortion kills more children then anything. But, we can't talk about that, can we

    You can. I don't want to.
     

  3. cesaros

    cesaros

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    Considerable Inconvenience for criminals?

    So this honor system, how does that stop someone from just exchanging a gun for cash in the privacy of his own residence?
     
  4. spcwes

    spcwes

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    Ok explain how a new infringement like this will work please. Just basic no need to get into the additional billions of $ and the newly funded agency required to track this. Also how it will effect the desired outcome.
     
  5. Glock20 10mm

    Glock20 10mm Use Linux!

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    If the US Navy can lay claim that their ships are extensions of the United States and therefore subject to the rule and laws of the United States then my vehicles are extensions of my home and therefore subject to the rules and laws of our land. Since we have the 4th Amendment... nope, you cannot randomly search my vehicle as I am afforded the right to security within my person from such illegal searches.
     
  6. Tippyman

    Tippyman

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    You do realize that the main aspect making a criminal a criminal is lack of respect for the law, right?

    Make private gun sales require a background check and people will still sell them, still buy them. The only thing you do is hurt law abiding citizens with more fees, paperwork, and infringement on our rights.

    For the record: if I thought universal background checks would even put a dent in gun crime and deaths, I'd sign off on it in a heartbeat. That may alienate me from my peers, but I'd do it. The problem is, that it won't.
     
  7. spcwes

    spcwes

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    Without complete registration of all firearms it won't do anything and it is pointless to even waste time pushing it. People keep thinking that this is a registration of sorts but for most states we don't register firearms and background checks only care if it is a rifle or handgun and that is it. So it won't do squat!
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  8. TeoK

    TeoK

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    OK, I agree that is a legitimate concern. But they're going to try that anyway. I just don't buy the logic that we can't give an inch because they'll take a mile. Instead of saying we'll give an inch, just declare that inch to be neutral ground. Then make it very clear where the real line in the sand is located. We will accept no bans, period, ever.
     
  9. VA27

    VA27

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    Somebody correct me here if I'm wrong, but the 'phone check' the dealer does is a check on the NAME of the buyer, not the gun he is buying. The only info on the gun is 'long gun' or 'handgun'.

    If the gov wants checks on all transfers, simply publish the 800 number for the check center so the FTF seller can whip out his cell phone and make the call. Simple, right? Except for the fact that the number of calls would be ENORMOUS and would probably require that the call center have a HUGE number of people maning the phones.

    The solution, of course, would be a Flat Tax. Your income tax could be done on a post card. All those IRS people who process income tax forms could now be used to man the phones for background checks.

    CALL NOW! OUR OPERATORS ARE STANDING BY!:rofl:
     
  10. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    This must be your first rodeo.
     
  11. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

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    The difference between your car and a Naval vessel is that you accepted a state license to hang on your car.

    Take a look deep into your state's motor vehicle laws with spcecifc regard to that vehicle license before you jump on me..

    I don't agree with that aspect of the law (and I think you'll find it's much the same for all states..), I'm only telling you how the state(s) see it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  12. TeoK

    TeoK

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    "Considerable Inconvenience for criminals? So this honor system, how does that stop someone from just exchanging a gun for cash in the privacy of his own residence?"

    That would happen, of course, just like drug transactions. The difference is that both parties would risk getting busted in a sting. I think it's pretty easy to see that private background checks would make it harder for criminals to get guns. Not impossible, but harder.
     
  13. TeoK

    TeoK

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    Ok explain how a new infringement like this will work please. Just basic no need to get into the additional billions of $ and the newly funded agency required to track this. Also how it will effect the desired outcome.

    I can't give all the specifics, the background-check policy would have to be hashed out. But just because it would require some work to get right, doesn't mean it can't be done. This is what wrote earlier, which, to me, doesn't seem so bad:

    Buyer and seller meet at gun shop (FFL). The FFL holder runs a NICS check on the buyer. If the buyer is legal, he pays the private seller the agreed-upon price, the cost of the background check, and a little more for the FFL holder's time: $10 for the NICS and maybe another $15 to the FFL holder. That's $25 for peace of mind, and adds considerable inconvenience to criminals and just a little inconvenience for law-abiding citizens. Also, the law could and should be written so that the FFL holder and the feds cannot retain identifying information after the transaction is complete.
     
  14. SpectreRider

    SpectreRider Armed Citizen

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    If you made the assertion in a different thread and used the word "unscathed" then I was quoting you. If you had said substantially the same thing earlier in this thread, I wasn't. Regardless, I maintain that the vast mass of law-abiding gun owners have done nothing wrong. We should not see an atrocity such as Sandy Hook as an event that requires new gun regulations, even as a trade off. Guns are not the culprit, evil or crazy people are responsible.

    Neither the largest mass murder in the US nor the largest school murder in the US was comitted via shooting. Both involved arsons and blocked exits. Evil will find a way.
     
  15. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    Which of the most recent mass shootings would have been prevented if private sales were illegal?
     
  16. spcwes

    spcwes

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    I guess in theory if everyone worked using the honor system this would work. But I will be honest, yes it might help from time to time but this would not have any REAL impact because criminals would still not use it and would keep doing what they are doing.

    The problem with it is there is not a checks and balancing system that could be used to keep it honest without a full registration of all weapons. So it would in all honesty do nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  17. TeoK

    TeoK

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    Since we have the 4th Amendment... nope, you cannot randomly search my vehicle as I am afforded the right to security within my person from such illegal searches.

    I agree 100%, and I think the Supreme Court ruled wrongly when they said that random sobriety traffic stops are legal. That is a violation of the 4th in my opinion. But we were talking about scheduled (not random) safety inspections before getting our plates renewed to make sure there is tread on the tires, working turn signals, brake pads, that sort of thing – not vehicle searches.
     
  18. TeoK

    TeoK

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    For the record: if I thought universal background checks would even put a dent in gun crime and deaths, I'd sign off on it in a heartbeat. That may alienate me from my peers, but I'd do it. The problem is, that it won't.

    Fair enough. How about try it for ten years with a sunset provision similar to the original "assault weapons" ban? If it cannot be shown to put a dent on gun crime and deaths, then Congress wouldn't have to renew it.
     
  19. Glock20 10mm

    Glock20 10mm Use Linux!

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    Not jumping on you, but I disagree. I Googled Motor Vehicle Exception so your prose is correct. I still don't agree with it... but :dunno:

    So I chased this down the rabbit hole and there is an Ace... sorta, and that would be the exclusionary rule.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  20. TeoK

    TeoK

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    This must be your first rodeo.

    I'm 45, been an NRA member since 1987.