Christian The origin of dispensationalism

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Vic Hays, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    I did not elaborate to keep it simple. You asked the right questions.

    History: in 1798 Napoleon took the pope captive and confiscated the Vatican. This is the deadly wound. Notice the flow of power. "The dragon gave him his power seat and authority." The Roman government moved to Constanople and left the bishop of Rome in charge. The deadly wound was healed in 1927 when Mussolini restored the Vatican and other lands.

    Revelation 13:2-3 KJV
    [2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. [3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

    The Seventh head gives way to the eighth but it is still the seventh.

    Revelation 17:11 KJV
    [11] And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    http://biblehub.com/revelation/17-8.htm

    What are we waiting for now?

    The Seventh head becomes a coalition at the very end.

    Revelation 16:13-14 KJV
    [13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. [14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    These three, the dragon (paganism/spiritualism), the beast (papal system), false prophet (fallen Protestantism) join forces in the last days. All authority belongs to Christ but these three demand political authority to enforce worship. "Speak and cause" means to make civil laws and enforce them.

    Revelation 13:14-15 KJV
    [14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. [15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    The image of the Beast is not the same beast but it does the same things. Freedom and conscience are to be suppressed even to the death decree.

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    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  2. NMG26

    NMG26

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    So how does one follow Christ in the midst of this coalition force?
    How do you know that your church is not the beast?
    How does your church differ from Protestantism?
     

  3. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    1. Love the Truth and believe Jesus words. Choose to follow Jesus.

    2. My Church has never had political control of much of the earth. It
    Doesn't believe in being political. God's kingdom is not of this world.

    3. My Church is more than Protestant. It is a continuation of the Refirmation.
    BTW. I said "fallen Protestantism". This is Protestantism without faith in God
    but rather faith in the authority of men.



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  4. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    Dispensationalism teaches two gospels. The Bible teaches one gospel.

    Ephesians 3:2-6 KJV
    [2] If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: [3] How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, [4] Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) [5] Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; [6] That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    Those churches that are teaching otherwise are teaching a false gospel.

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  5. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

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    So Islam, the largest religion in the world, has no part to play in your theology?

    If anyone is the false prophet, its mohammad, and Islam is the 8th Beast, as this is what developed out of Constantinople, which itself came from Rome.

    If you really followed what the Bible said you obey all the commandments. God doesn't lie. If something is a sin or unclean, it is always a sin and always unclean. Because God is always true.
     
  6. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    Islam might have more followers, but its followers spend more time fighting each other it may never be unified and in control of the world. It may well be the king of the south.

    North is the direction of control. The king of the North is the one in control.

    Daniel 11:40-45 KJV
    [40] And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. [41] He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. [42] He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. [43] But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. [44] But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. [45] And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.


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  7. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

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    Iron and Clay.
     
  8. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    The iron is the remnants of the strong Roman Empire mixed with the weaker nations of Europe represented by the clay. King of the North dwells there.

    Daniel 2:43 KJV
    [43] And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

    At one time it was tried to unite Europe with intermarriage. It did not work. Kaiser Wilhelm, Napoleon, Hitler, all tried to reunite the old Roman Empire even the EU did not work. God's word is sure they will not be reunited.

    King of the south in the Levant. Region around Turkey and Middle East that Daniel talks about will overrun Israel eventually but not the world.

    http://www.ancient.eu/levant/


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  9. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

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    The 8th Beast is the beast of iron.

    I think it's more likely that while Islam is trying to move into all of western civilization the two will never mix. The Pope and the RCC go to great length to convince us that we all worship the same God (we dont). All we see from this is unrest and terrorism across the globe.

    I think it's interesting that Britain is enacting Brexit right now. We'll see what comes of it. Ephraim and Mannasah may be about to form an alliance. These two being the sons of Joseph.

    Dan_11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

    Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
    Gen 49:23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
    Gen 49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel).

    Numbers 24:15-25 is also interesting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  10. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    The Bible is better interpreted by comparing scripture with scripture. The fourth kingdom of Daniel 2 is the kingdom of iron. The eighth being of iron is not at all likely.

    Daniel 2:40 KJV
    [40] And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things : and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

    Daniel 7:7 KJV
    [7] After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

    As much as you would like to advance such a theory it does not match scripture.

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  11. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

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    Well, you're right. It was the fourth beast that was iron. I don't know why I thought it was the 8th.


    I still believe that Islam is the 8th Beast though. The deadly wound would be the fall of Constantinople, which was part of the Roman Empire, then reborn as radical Islam today.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  12. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    The deadly wound by the sword was the confiscation of the Vatican and the exile of the pope in 1798 at the end of the 1260 years of supremacy over the Christian world.

    Daniel 7:24-26 KJV
    [24] And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. [25] And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. [26] But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

    His dominion was taken away after the 1260 years and yet he continues on. The deadly wound was healed with the Lateran pact by Mussolini.

    http://www.concordatwatch.eu/topic-841.843

    Revelation 13:2-3 KJV
    [2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. [3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

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  13. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

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    It's possible.

    There seems to have been some dark going's-on in the RCC during the 60's.
     
  14. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    I think that you have here the king of the North at Rome and the king of the south at Constantinople. Notice it says "at the time of the end" which is our time.

    Daniel 11:40 KJV
    [40] And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

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