The latest COVID-19 deniers argument...

Discussion in 'Covid-19 News/Info' started by HollowHead, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. racerford

    racerford

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    One of the biggest problems is that doctors won’t do a dang thing, even test you, until you are so sick you have to be hospitalized. That guarantees an increase in bad results. I wonder why they are overwhelmed in NYC as they are only treating CoVid in 4 hospitals IIRC. How many hospitals do they have? Didn’t the governor are issue not to use a treatment that was proving effective in France. Yeah, it is always good when your non doctor governor decides appropriate medical treatment. This is the same New York that their epidemic plannerd decided not to warehouse spare ventilators and go with “death boards” instead. I wonder if that decision has anything to do with their death rates?


    As far as the healthcare system being overwhelmed, why are doctor groups furloughing doctors and nurses nationwide? Wow, that must mean that there is a LOT of unused capacity. Well that and the decision to close doctors offices to sick people.
     
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  2. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    There has been a shortage of tests. It is improving, but they are no so available that everyone who wants to be tested can just go get tested. There was such a dearth of supply that they were only using them for the sicker patients, where it was more critical to find out exactly what was going on.

    Its not like Doctors just chose willy nilly not to test people because they didn't want to.


    First of all, the systems have largely been able to cope thus far, fortunately. If we had not taken drastic measures, that would likely be very different. Additionally, there are TONS of non/less essential medical services that have been put on hold, just like many other businesses, so that is likely where you are seeing many of those furloughs. Cosmetic surgery, sports medicine, etc. These practices have largely shut down for the same reason other businesses have... to help slow the spread.
     

  3. racerford

    racerford

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    The have closed GP offices. The front line for everyone else. So those that may just have the flu, aren’t getting Tamiflu when it will help them avoid hospitalization. I guess preventative care, and early treatment have been a sham for all these years. That certainly is the message being sent.
    And all those doctors on furlough could be helping triage, but now that is left to the “overwhelmed” facilities. This has been a self fulfilling prophecy. Their “treatment” protocol has insured more severe cases that last longer.
     
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  4. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    Some GP's have closed, certainly. There are still some that are open, and many more that are doing telemedicine. It is absolutely possible to still receive primary care, though perhaps not as easy as before.

    And as I've already explained several times, the amount of people that would be harmed if Covid spreads out of control will be far greater than the amount of people that will be harmed because they have a somewhat tougher time getting in to see their GP right now.

    I assure you, if and when they are needed to do so, they will be asked to assist. But we don't as yet need to have orthopedists in the ICU treating respiratory illness. Lets hope it stays that way.

    You clearly have no concept of what is currently happening in medical facilities, compared to what could be happening if things really got out of control.
     
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  5. jetflier1989

    jetflier1989

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    Truthfully you sound like a classic worry wart bordering on a quitter with that defeatist tone.

    I fully understand what you are saying. You’re concerned about something you don’t have to be concerned about. Simple. Right? Unless you hold an administrative position it’s not your job to worry about the ability of the system and it’s limits. Nor is there anything you can do about it. Your job is to be a Paramedic. So are you an administrator attending daily staff meetings? Because if so that would change the pitch of this conversation.

    But thankfully this whole thing according to the news today is dwindling or at the least leveling off. Some people get bent out of shape when you question anything or doubt anything the media is dishing out. Hey I’m hoping some of this was exaggerated. Who the heck wants to live like this the rest of their lives!
     
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  6. jonb32248

    jonb32248

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    The powers that be are making more out of this than should be. Dr. Birx has said as of yesterday that all deaths are being called Covid 19 deaths. Thus why some other categories of deaths are going down which makes the numbers suspect. I distrust more and more these drs. and the numbers.You have Cuamo saying they have the most deaths in one day and yet the numbers are leveling off or flattening. Really?
     
  7. racerford

    racerford

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    You are denying what is happening in other people’s worlds and saying it is not a problem. You denial of my personal experience does not make it not true. I know exactly how my wife was treated when she exhibited symptoms, fortunately she met the criteria at the time and got tested. Before requiring being so sick you couldn’t breathe. She has chronic medical conditions that put her at risk, and yet they offered no treatment even though it could have be the flu. No flu test was given. So treatment was delayed. Turns out she tested negative. The doctor then suggested pneumonia and started her on antibiotics, later after the first course didn’t resolve the problem, she went to levaquin, and the doctor said maybe she had had CoVid-19 and had a false negative due to the earlier type test. I am sure her doctor is following suggested protocols.

    But she hasn’t died so no harm no foul I guess. But you must be right and their protocol for dealing with is the right one. Kind of hit or miss and waiting to treat them until they are close to death, because once you are hypoxic, you are getting close to death.

    You are a fool to believe that the actions they have taken will not have real world negative consequences. Otherwise it clearly says preventative medicine and early treatment does not improve long term results.

    So which is true, preventative medicine and early treatment are important and improve results, or they don’t matter and not practicing them has no negative consequence?

    How many people’s lives have to be destroyed before to is not worth the cost? How many lives d
    Have to lost to non-CoVid causes before it matters.

    Apparently, if it saves just one person from CoVid nothing else matters, right?
     
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  8. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    I have not denied your experience at all. I explicitly acknowledged your wife's situation days ago. It was unfortuante. However, I have also explained, numerous times now, that as a whole, there will be more people, with more negative outcomes if we allow the healthcare system to become totally overwhelmed.
     
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  9. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    Yes, really. There was a point at which there was an apex of infections, which will result in a apex of deaths several weeks later. And in the time since that apex of infections, as people began to social distance, there were less people being infected. So you will see an apex of deaths, with a decrease in new admissions at the same time. Its really not complicated.
     
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  10. racerford

    racerford

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    Where I disagree is that the current actions in terms of treatment protocol are exactly what will lead to more critical cases and overwhelming the system. And you don’t improve the situation by limiting treatment to 4 hospitals in a city the size of NYC. The are creating an artificial shortage. You don’t improve the situation by removing medical resources from the overall healthcare system.

    you don’t improve the NYC situation by making people stay home and be put out of work in Wyoming.
    I am highly critical of some the actions taken by those in power. You seem highly trusting of them. How can you be when a governor it making determination of drug treatments.
     
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  11. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    Its abundantly clear that you're not actually interested in having any kind of rational discourse on the topic at hand. Have a good night.
     
  12. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    Well, truth be told, I don't think you have the slightest damned idea what you're talking about when it comes to the healthcare system, how it operates, and how it could be impacted by an infectious disease epidemic. You'll disagree, which is fine. Clearly you won't be convinced by anything I have to say, so I will not keep repeating myself. I wish your wife the best.
     
  13. racerford

    racerford

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    Thank you for the well wishes for my wife.


    I am sorry you are OK with Governors determining medical treatments. I thought you believed in doctors determining treatment. Apparently not.
     
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  14. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    I never said nor implied as much. That is what we call a "strawman," and its not the first time I've pointed out your use of one.
     
  15. racerford

    racerford

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    It is not a straw man, you have repeated expressed support for all that has been done, and that is part of it. You have been repeatedly asked about it, and side step it. You have never denied it. Why is it it that you will not answer? It is very simple, to not repudiate the New York Governor’s actions says you don’t believe that Doctor’s are in the best position to determine treatment.

    So which is it, should Doctors or Politicians be determining treatment?
     
  16. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    I've really tried to stick to healthcare, and not get bogged down in the million other side discussions that could be tangentially related to the pandemic. And I'm really not interested in discussing this with someone who can't stop putting words in my mouth, which your last line about the NY governor is yet another example of.

    Good night.
     
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  17. racerford

    racerford

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    When
    When a governor issues an executive order that says doctors can’t prescribe a certain medication to treat something that is about healthcare, end of story. So it seems this all about following orders, and not about healthcare.
     
  18. Lampshade

    Lampshade

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    Yea, that's healthcare related. Go ahead and quote where I said anything about that particular issue.

    You can't, cause I didn't.

    You're both putting words in my mouth and arguing against things which I never even came close to talking about.