Debate THE HOLY BIBLE

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Jose Yero, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. Jose Yero

    Jose Yero Cochiloco

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    In the ten or so days in which I have been a member of GT, I have noticed that the Bible is quoted by both believers and non-believers to make and/or refute one point or another. I have also noticed that direct Biblical quotes are routinely ignored by both sides.

    So I ask both believers and non-believers, why bother quoting the Bible in the first place if you won't accept it from the other side?

    For Christians:
    • Can the case FOR Christianity be made without the Bible?
    • Can one actually BE Christian without the Bible?
    • Would YOU be Christian at all if you had never seen a Bible?

    For Atheists:
    • Can a case FOR Atheism be made without the Bible?
    • Can one actually BE Atheist without the Bible?
    • Would YOU be Atheist at all if you had never seen a Bible?

    For Everyone:
    • Is it possible to have a civilized religious issues discussion WITHOUT throwing Biblical verses back and forth?
    • Would you support a Bible Free Debate PREFIX on GTRI forum?
    • Why or why not?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  2. ziggy2525

    ziggy2525

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    You can be an atheist without the Bible. You can't have a debate with someone that thinks the Bible has an authoritative answer to every question without bringing it up.

    Unlike the view you proposed a couple days ago that he Bible is authozative on theology, but not on science, most Christians on GTRI (and I'd say almost all American evangelicals) believe the Bible has an inerrant, authoritative answer to every question. Then they use the Bible as their source to make the most bizarre claims.
     

  3. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    It is necessary for there to be some standard of faith and practice. The Protestant Reformation recognized the right of individual conscience and the Bible as the standard of faith and practice.

    Without a standard of faith the Truth is eventually lost in the traditions of men.

    Mark 7:13 KJV
    [13] Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

    1 Peter 1:25 KJV
    [25] But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

    Why not accept the Bible quotes from unbelievers? Because they are usually twisted to fit whatever atheist narrative they want to promote. The Bible has authority when correctly interpreted. Even satan quotes from the Bible.

    Matthew 4:5-7 KJV
    [5] Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, [6] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. [7] Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  4. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Philippians 4: 6-7

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    Your questions are irrelevant because there is a Bible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
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  5. ziggy2525

    ziggy2525

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    You mis-typed. Let me fix that for you.

    Why not accept the Bible quotes from believers? Because they are usually twisted to fit whatever Christian narrative they want to promote
     
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  6. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    Atheism doesn't need to "make a case". Atheism is just the lack of belief, or disbelief in a god or gods. IMO with or without the bible, the evidence for god(s) is lacking.

    Yes. I, personally, almost never use bible verse. I read the bible in my teens, chuckled a bit and put it down.

    Yes. Because I still would be exposed to those who do have a bible.


    No. It's the only source a Christian has. Without bible verses there isn't much a Christian can say.

    If support it. It wouldn't work



    It's the only source a Christian has. Without bible verses there isn't much a Christian can say.
     
  7. Dave514

    Dave514

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    What better book to use to point out the insane contradictions of the bible than.............................the bible.
     
  8. Sarge1400

    Sarge1400

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    Atheism has absolutely nothing to do with the bible. Atheism is simply a disbelief in any deities.


    I think it is possible to have a civilized religious issues discussion without using bible verses, but since some believers see the bible as being central to their worldview, I don't think it's inappropriate to for them to use excerpts to try to support their position.

    I don't think I would support a bible-free debate prefix; I don't see the point in limiting the debate parameters.
     
  9. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    It is entirely possible for believers to have an erroneous view of scripture and misquote it. That is why it is necessary to compare Bible verses to ascertain the Truth.

    Isaiah 28:8-10 KJV
    [8] For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean . [9] Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. [10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

    The opposite is also true. The Bible can be used to establish a lie. A lot depends on motive.

    Isaiah 28:13 KJV
    [13] But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

    The Bible can be the source of Truth to some and a trap for others.
     
  10. Jose Yero

    Jose Yero Cochiloco

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    Thanks to all who have responded. In the OP, I directed some questions to Christians and some to Atheists. I would appreciate if participants would answer the questions for themselves and refrain from characterizing the other side. It is also my hope that all participants answer all six questions that apply to them. There is no need to provide extensive remarks. Answers can be as brief as one word. But at the very least, I need a response to each of the six questions so I can formulate an appropriate response to each participant.

    JOSE
     
  11. Jose Yero

    Jose Yero Cochiloco

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    Thank you. If you are Christian, would you be kind enough to answer a few questions?

    • Can the case FOR Christianity be made without the Bible?
    • Can one actually BE Christian without the Bible?
    • Would YOU be Christian at all if you had never seen a Bible?
     
  12. Jose Yero

    Jose Yero Cochiloco

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    Thank you. If you are Christian, would you be kind enough to answer a few questions?

    • Can the case FOR Christianity be made without the Bible?
    • Can one actually BE Christian without the Bible?
    • Would YOU be Christian at all if you had never seen a Bible?
     
  13. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    Easy to be an atheist without the Bible or Christianity. It is but one of thousands of holy books and religions that we don't believe in. Losing that one out of thousands is insignificant and would only be noticed because we live in a predominantly Christian country.

    The Bible's internal inconsistencies along with the genocidal purges make an easy case for their God to be false. But a requirement for atheism? Not at all. It's only one of many superstitions out there.

    You don't need unproven rumors of Bigfoot to make one disbelieve in mythical beasts in general like the Yeti, Abominable Snowman, Loch Ness
    Monsters mermaids.

    I would definitely be an atheist, with or without the Bible. I'm assuming other holy books written by primitive Bronze Age nomads by multiple people over hundreds of years rather than trained philosophers and logicians in collusion are equally flawed, they'd all have consistency issues.

    Randy
     
  14. Jose Yero

    Jose Yero Cochiloco

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    Thank you. I understand your position on the questions for Atheists that I asked in the OP. Would you care to address these:

    • Is it possible to have a civilized religious issues discussion WITHOUT throwing Biblical verses back and forth?
    • Would you support a Bible Free Debate PREFIX on GTRI forum?
    • Why or why not?
     
  15. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    We've seen it isn't always possible to have civilized religious discussion throwing Bible verses around. But it's impossible to have a religious discussion involving Christianity without the Bible. Judaism as well.

    Is there anything else available to corroborate their positions? With all the different versions and interpretations it's a foundation of quicksand, but it's the only foundation available to them.

    Support a Bible free debate tag? I wouldn't mind, and would be a welcome relief at times to be sure. But I would stop short of supporting it as I feel it's unfair to the Christian posters. It would essentially neuter them figuratively and leave them with nothing to argue with. Might as well ban them from that tag for all intents and purposes, defeats the purpose of a discussion forum.

    Randy

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
     
  16. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Philippians 4: 6-7

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    I am a Christian and I wonder why you seem to be so fixated on us answering questions as if there is no Bible? I don't see the point since there is one.
     
  17. CAMSDADDY

    CAMSDADDY

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    I think there are people who have been exposed to Christianity that have never read the Bible but who have led to become Christ followers through the basic principals of Christianity. For instance there are foreign countries where missionaries serve who have believe that they are sinners in need of a savior and have seen the love of said savior through the people who have confessed to follow him.
     
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  18. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    1. Yes
    2 Yes
    3. Possibly, but without the depth of commitment and faith that I have.
     
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  19. Jose Yero

    Jose Yero Cochiloco

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    And that is precisely the point. I AM a Christian and I know there IS a Bible. And so do you. Amen?

    So pretty please - with sugar on top - if it wouldn't be too much trouble, would you be kind enough to give brief answers to a few questions.
    • Can the case FOR Christianity be made without the Bible?
    • Can one actually BE Christian without the Bible?
    • Would YOU be Christian at all if you had never seen a Bible?
    My brother, these are not trick questions. Christians are not all in agreement on these matters. I do not know you personally so I'm inviting you to answer for yourself. Certainly you may remain silent if you wish but so far, the Atheists have been more forthcoming than the Christians. Indeed, they have already begun answering the questions I directed to Christians. I'm getting tired of stereotypes.
     
  20. Emmett4glock

    Emmett4glock

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    For Christians:
    1. Yes
    2. Yes
    3. Yes
    Ironically, the reason for my answers can be found in the Bible.

    For everyone:
    1. Yes
    2. It's not necessary; but if enough members want it, I'm okay with it.
    3. There are plenty of posts from Christians without scripture. You would have to give me an explanation as to why you wouldn't want scripture in a thread before I could give you a definitive answer.
    ETA: Okay, I reread your OP. Because each side ignores the other's use of scripture you feel it is a)a waste of space and time, b)offensive to use scripture as a debate tool c)other? I appreciate the use of scripture from both sides because I learn how others interpret that scripture which is useful in understanding the reasons a person would accept or reject God or the current discussion topic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
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