The Future Of .40 Cal ?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by ChrisD46, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Well until good jhp were developed, I wouldnt carry any 9mm. Since about 15y ago though, new ball game. Not selling my 45s or 40s but they dont get carried as much.
     
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  2. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3

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    They have had 'Hydro-Shok's' since the late 80's are they not Modern?
     

  3. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

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    By today’s standards, I’d say no.
     
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  4. AdamRodgers

    AdamRodgers 23 Year member of the 9mm Cult!

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    #nomorecaliberwars :D
     
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  5. LouisianaGunSlinger

    LouisianaGunSlinger

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    The Hydra-Shok rounds were state of the art... 15 or 20 years ago. Compared to modern designs like the HST, Gold Dot, etc... they tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing (and even just lightly clothed flesh and bare gel shots). They also don't hold up well at all to intermediate barriers. Even in unobstructed shots where they do expand, Hydra-Shoks more often show jacket separation compared to modern bonded loads, leading to inconsistent penetration, which isn't good.
     
  6. UncleDave

    UncleDave

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    I recall watching an old video a while back where it was demonstrated that bullet weight matters more than velocity when it comes to penetration, including soft tissue and hard barriers. This is still true of expanding projectiles, to only a slightly lesser degree. Muzzle energy in and of itself is not the panacea many make it out to be; it is the momentum by way of the weight of the bullet that matters most in penetration. Velocity, however, is important up to the point where full expansion occurs, as the speed of the impact affects the rate and degree of expansion. But simply quoting ME doesn't tell the whole story.

    There is no one caliber that is best at everything. We can choose different calibers, loads, manual-of-arms for different scenarios. Each has advantages over another when it comes to soft barrier penetration, hard barriers, winter vs summer clothing, coyote, human, grizzly bear, etc., and we can choose what's best for us in the situations we are likely to find ourselves in. This is why I don't like to blindly follow what the FBI does. The FBI isn't going to issue one caliber for training, another caliber for duty sidearm, and another for bear defense, etc. It's impractical to stock their armories with multiple styles of pistols and ammo for specific purposes. We as civilians can take advantage of these many options, and don't need to standardize on only one weapon for all uses, unless we choose to.

    Th FBI is also not limited by mag capacity restrictions. In my 10-round state, I choose to carry the largest bullets I can in a package that fits my hand comfortably, and for me, 180gr 40SW fits the criteria most of the time.
     
  7. Deputydave

    Deputydave Millennium Member

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    This.

    25+ years ago the Hydra-Shok was marginally okay but not stellar. No where near HST, GD, GS and all the other premium rounds of today.
     
  8. fredj338

    fredj338

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    The hydrashok was not a good design in the 9mm, often failed to expand. Just too much going on in the small HP. In the 45 it was the jhp of its day, today there are better & cheaper. The RGS & GDHP were probably the first really good 9mm jhp. Though the Fed 115gr load was popular then too, just too light for my taste.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  9. JohnnyReb

    JohnnyReb Lifetime Member

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    To be fair to the hydra shok, it’s not the same bullet it was in the 80s. The bullet has gone under several revisions since then. It’s not the best out there, admittedly but I wouldn’t classify it as poor.

    Most importantly, it costs the same as HST which is a better performing bullet by far. For the cost, there is little to no reason to buy the hydra shok these days.
     
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  10. Nutty Professor 188

    Nutty Professor 188 Patrol Corporal

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    We had the same problems with our G22s with WMLs.
    It was determined that the 40SW generated more recoil causing the frame to flex more than the 9mm. The G22 did ok as long as it was allowed to flex freely. When the WML was clamped on the dust cover it reinforced the front end of the frame causing it to be more rigid. Somehow this interfered with the slide/feed cycle causing the malfunctions. Glock sent us 11 coil magazine springs and this helped. Keeping fresh RSAs helped too. But they were nowhere near as reliable as the 9mms.

    This reliability issue was our main reason for switching to G17/19. Although, we had lower DQ rate with 9mm and ammo is a little cheaper.
    I don't think either round is better than the other. But the 40 comes with more issues to be overcome; reliability, durability, and recoil. You can pretend it doesn't matter but it does. I've been a police firearms instructor for 20 years, about 12 years using 40 caliber and the other 8 (so far) with 9. I say this from experience, not theory. If you personally want carry 40 than by all means do so. If you are responsible for others and want the best possible gun/caliber across the board than I think the 9 has the advantage.

    I have 10mms, 45s, and 357s and I love them, but 9mm is my favorite.


    Sent from my iPhone using Glock Talk mobile app
     
  11. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner

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    One projectile that was developed around the same time as the Hydra-shok is the Hornady XTP which was ahead of it's time. It doesn't always give maximum expansion but will both expand and penetrate and is effective at a wider range of velocities than most other JHP's and is good at plus+P velocites.

    The original Hydra-shock was a plus+P 150 grain reversed hollow-based wadcutter in 38 special with thicker side walls and a post in the middle. I had a box of that ammo back in the late 70's and fired about 12 rounds out of my 3 inch j-frame chief's special and it was reasonably accurate but I never got to do any expansion testing with it in spite of the fact that I was living in a bad Neighborhood at the time.
     
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  12. nmoreno

    nmoreno

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    I have a Sig Sauer P226, 40 cal, non rail, hand gun that I have owned since the late 90's. The gun is like a timex watch and goes bang every time I pull the trigger. I read the posts how its not in fashion with the FBI. I will continue to shoot my forty till Im unable to find ammo.
     
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  13. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Original all-lead Hydra-Shok .45ACP. I bought this when they were first released in the convenient Ammo Wallet packaging. Never got around to carrying it or shooting it out of my Commander. I was more a fan of the original CCI 200gr "Flying Ashtray" JHP (which my Commander would reliably feed using a pair of stainless Vega magazines of that period).

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  14. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    BTW, once Federal revised the JHP profile for their jacketed Hydra-Shok .45ACP, reportedly to help enhance feeding, it acquired a respectable reputation back in those days, especially when fired from service size pistols, like a 1911 or P90.

    I must've liked it back then, because when I was sorting through some large plastic ammo boxes of older off-duty carry ammo after our move, I discovered I'd bagged up and stored away several hundred (loose) rounds of 230gr .45ACP Hydra-Shok. I boxed it back up and decided to keep it stored away as back up carry ammo.
     
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  15. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3

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    I will confess to not owning a Glock 40, I have bought Springfield XD40's new for $320, so a used G-22 at $300 seemed steep to me.
     
  16. nikerret

    nikerret Mr. Awesome

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    Freaking cool!
     
  17. AdamRodgers

    AdamRodgers 23 Year member of the 9mm Cult!

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    I believe I have a box that my Dad got like this full of 38 Special or 357 Mag. I cant remember.

    I must hunt them down now...;)
     
  18. fredj338

    fredj338

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    In its day, the 9mm hydra was a poor design. It may be better today but HST are far better & far cheaper.
     
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  19. fredj338

    fredj338

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    The XTP has also gone thru redesign, as has every jhp out there. It still works, just never delivers large expansion. Its a good choice in a hunting bullet imo, but for SD, I like more expansion.
     
  20. fredj338

    fredj338

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    For LEA issuing 45, it was the choice for most. I just never cared for ot in 9mm. Underloaded vel wise & nominal exp, often clogged with clothing.