The Future Of .40 Cal ?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by ChrisD46, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. ditto1958

    ditto1958

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    [QUOTE="fredj338, post: 27883842, member: 40165" Very few people will carry a 9mm with marginal 115gr JHP @ 1100fps. Most will carry a 124gr or 147gr bullets that produce nearly the same ME & expand nearly the same & penetrate nearly the same as 180gr 40.

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDA52PzdOsU[/QUOTE]

    Huh? Based on the tests I’ve seen, 124gr 9mm hollow points expand to about .5 in, while 180gr 40 cal hollow points expand to about .7 in. That’s a 40% larger diameter, and the area is almost twice as large, .79 in sq vs. 1.54 in sq. How is that “almost the same?

    A 147 grain 9mm jhp will expand to closer to the size of a 180 grain 40, and they will have similar velocities, but the 9mm will have about 100 ft lbs less energy at the muzzle.
     
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  2. ditto1958

    ditto1958

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    I just don’t get it.

    So... if a .40 S&W round is heavier and expands larger, and goes about the same speed as a 9mm round, AND you can shoot it well, why isn’t that better?

    If you can shoot a 9mm gun faster and more accurately, then yes, it’s better for you than 9mm. But some people can shoot 40 cal guns really well. You can’t tell me the bigger and heavier round is not better for them.
     
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  3. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    Maybe the guys that design and make bullets for a living, for probably the two largest SD bullet manufacturers, can explain it better than I. Make sure to watch the embedded video:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-ballistics-gel-works/amp/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
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  4. amd65

    amd65

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    Those guys design bullets for jello and govt contracts. They are not the holy Grail the 9mm cult makes them out to be.
     
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  5. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    Do you have any facts to back that up?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  6. amd65

    amd65

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    50 years of shooting things.
     
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  7. fredj338

    fredj338

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    From luckygunner: Fed HST
    9/124gr +P = 377ft#
    40/180gr = 376ft#
    With a good bullet the 9mm will reach near 70 cal. Yes with a good bullet the 40 will get a bit bigger. Both penetrate about the same. Again, very few are happy with 115gr 9mm going 1250fps, just not enough mass for good penetration or over 60cal expansion. Yes you have to choose wisely with 9mm, but to say the 180gr 40 is superior, more energy, more anything, uh no.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  8. ditto1958

    ditto1958

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    It just seems like common sense. Mixed with a little bit of 6th grade physics. Bigger around and heavier and just as fast. It’s gonna make bigger holes and have a greater chance of hitting arteries.

    And then there’s personal observation. We have steel swingers hung at our range. 38 special and 9mm rounds hit them harder than a 22lr, but not much. But .40, .357 magnum, .44 magnum all hit the 25 yard swingers so hard they almost spin over the top of the frame they hang from.

    Unscientific maybe, but the difference is very noticeable.
     
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  9. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Because as I show it is not necessarily better, just more recoil. Yes you can cherry pick this or that but I am just putting up the numbers. No one can tell me they shoot their 40 BETTER than the same platform 9mm. They can tell me they feel like they do but timers & targets don't lie. So yes I can say if it slows down your accuracy at speed it isn't better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  10. fredj338

    fredj338

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    You are falling into the same trap most do when shooting things like a steel plate. Momentum works there, not so much on meat.
    9mm 124gr HST has a momentum of 145
    40 180gr HST a momentum of 174, yep more, why the plate reacts. If both bullets impact with sim energy & very sim penetration & final diameter, the result will be sim with sim bullet placement. Well maybe. One can never dismiss the targets attitude to any response of injury.
     
  11. kwo

    kwo

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    45 gap is dead but the 40S&W will live on.
     
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  12. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

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    Momentum does work on meat, especially when you introduce bone.
     
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  13. slamdunc

    slamdunc JAFO

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    And this is the way to learn. I always try to convince people to spend less time reading & researching and more time actually shooting.
     
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  14. amd65

    amd65

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    I’ve been shooting a G17 and a G26 with +P and +P+ for years. Been a 9mm guy since before there was a 10mm.
    The Gen4 G22 police surplus I bought on a whim feels exactly the same to me, I shoot them the same.

    I’ve shot a lot of 357mag, 44mag, and hot loaded 45colt in my shooting life.
    .40 s&w “hard to handle”, difficult to shoot, slow to get hits with?
    Maybe for some people.
    Im still a 9mm guy, but I liked shooting the G22 so much that it immediately moved into the House gun role, loaded with 180gn HST.
    I like the 9mm just fine, just as I have for decades. But I’m not blind to other effective cartridges.
    I don’t care if one single hit on an assailant is “only” one tenth of one percent more effective...I’ll take it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  15. tuica

    tuica

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    Thanks for confirmation of something I’ve noticed on BF. You whisper “45 GAP” and someone always informs us that it’s a dead caliber. In fact, I sometimes mention that caliber just to draw them out. And who doesn’t occasionally enjoy a Red Team exercise? Keeps us on alert.

    The Anti-Gapper’s must have 24/7 watch-standers. Great work, fellows! You passed inspection! Carry on. You’ve restored my faith in humanity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  16. Rusty Guns

    Rusty Guns

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    I have listened to arguments all the way around.
    For my Money I like My G-23 Best.
    It may not be best in this study, or that test.
    I also like my G-30S, I have liked the 45ACP, since I got into LE. I started carrying a S&W #66 in 357Mag. Less than a year later I Got a Colt Commander, in 45ACP and carried it till the 40 cal came out. I have carried the same G-23 On Duty and off. I retired about 3 years ago, and continued to carry it, till a few months ago, I bought a G-43X for my Daughter, because it is lighter, and thinner, easier for her to carry. I liked it so much, that I carried and shot it enough that I got one for me too. I still have my G-23, 30S, 19, and 43X those for me to carry, a G-41 for the nightstand, a couple of G-22's around the house. Also a couple of Shotguns around the house too.
    I feel like the 40cal. is here to stay.
     
  17. Longbow

    Longbow Millennium Member

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    The future of .40 cal in my collection is pretty safe. I just picked up an HK USP .40 cal not too long ago.
    I am thinking of getting surplus SIG 229 LEO trade-in too. The prices are just too tempting on these really nice pistols.
     
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  18. bigsteve113

    bigsteve113

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    I hope nobody misconstrued my posts. We went with 9mm and .45 GLOCKs because of a specific issue with GLOCK 40's with WML's that causes them to not meet our needs.

    .40 caliber GLOCKs are still great guns, just not for us. The .40 is still a great defense caliber. And it is here to stay.
     
  19. fredj338

    fredj338

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    His test isnt really va
    Id as he chooses the lightes 9mm possible. Yes momentum helps with bone & penetration, but the momentum isnt movin things like it dies a sreel plate.
     
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  20. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

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    I do wish he would of chosen a better round for both calibers. Momentum isn’t necessarily about moving things, so much about maintaining its current trajectory and providing the proper penetration, even when inconsistent medium is encountered.
     
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