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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Not mentioned elsewhere in the 72 page speculation on the "G30SF" problem is that the new G30SF use the 4256-1 trigger bars.

Of which the –1 designation referring to the 1mm longer back end of the cruciform plate for harder primer strikes in response to some CA cops using bad reloads.

However this specific aspect is NOT the cause of the RTB problems, nor is it “out of spec” trigger bar shaping.

The 4256-1 trigger bar has TWO CHANGES, one being the longer cruciform plate.

And the OTHER change causing a very few RTB problems with some G30SF is that the trigger bar cam (the upward pointing cam, or as some call it incorrectly “extension”) was RAISED.

If you have several G30s as I do, you can see the problem instantly, that is causing this problem, the scratches below the cam that is rubbing against the inside of the slide are inconsequential.

The cam itself is dragging on the slide immediately before contacting the striker (firing pin) safety plunger.

I will post a picture of this drag soon.

It is correct also that Glock changed the recoil guide assy. to a stiffer design. But this stiffer spring is not a response to "frame flex" but to apply more brute force to return-to-battery of the slide and overcome the drag of the TB CAM until it and the slide wore themselves smooth.

The older recoil assy. on the G30 has a black back-end, the newer one is silver in color with a depressed dimple.

Anyone skilled with a dremmel tool can polish the cam head down a couple thousandths and fix this problem.

If you remove your barrel and recoil assy. and reassemble the gun, with trigger fully rearward, you can slowly cycle the slide and see the drag on the TB (trigger bar) CAM immediately before it reaches the striker (firing pin) safety plunger.

The 4256-1 bar, as glock Inc. WILL confirm to you, has 2 changes, the cruciform plate length increase (by 1mm) but also a RAISE in the height of the trigger bar cam.

…Which was fine for the G21, but has cause drag problems in the G30 model.

**In fact, inserting a 4256-1 TB in an older standard G30 will cause the SAME drag, as I myself have confirmed.

Fix? Dremel the cam head couple thousandths and fix this problem, if you think yourself capable/skilled enough, or order a new TB from glockmiester.com , they themselves are aware of this problem as well.


**** As further proof, as mentioned in another thread of someone who contacted a glock rep:

".....according to Doug(glock phone tech guy) this is the rtb problem. The slight scratch mark on the raised trigger bar is a byproduct of the problem but "not the reason g30's and g30sf's are not returning to battery evertime" "the problem is the trigger bar EXTENSION' (TB CAM) The way it runs along the right side and under the slide , you would not see any evidence on it(the extension) . .......... "says Doug" He says GLOCK FEELS the rtb problem is not mag spring related or trigger bar scratch(contact) related. " It's directly due to the slide making contact with the trigger bar extension (TB CAM) because it's sitting too high under the slide " Thats why it works itself out over time. The metal slide will wear the fraction of metal off the length of the extension"


< This however is INCORRECT of the Glock REP, I DO see evidence of this DRAG of the cam along the inside of the slide just before it reaches the safety plunger, it looks like a skidmark/streak of the CAM's metal dragging on the slide


I should also mention that most likely this is a JOINT problem of slightly out of spec frame rails which are a 1000th too low IN COMBINATION with the higher TB CAM, which is causing excessive drag on the last 1/4" of going into battery.
 

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Very well written and informative. Bravo!
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
UPDATE!

I just took out TWO BRAND NEW in box G30SF with the 4256-1 trigger bar

**If you turn the gun upside down take out the mag, and shine a light inside, you will FEEL the Trigger bar CAM hit the FRAME immediately (about 3mm) before it reaches the slides firing pin (striker) safety plunger. All the while depressing the trigger fully rearwards.

ON TWO OF MY NEW IN BOX G30SF with the 4256-1 trigger bar guns... I found I could stop the slide with the 4256-1 RAISED Trigger bar CAM impacting the slide (and making a drag mark and rubbed off metal from the Trigger bar CAM). I found that I could stop the slide from going fully back into battery by about 1/4".

FIX? Easy... I am very skilled (and I mean very) with a dremel, I used the polishing head (feels like a rough eraser) to smooth the top and slope of the Trigger bar CAM, then used simichrome (flitz is same) with a buffing wheel to make a mirror polish on the Trigger bar CAM

....I also removed the firing pin (striker) safety plunger and did the same to it.

RESULT: Problem utterly 100% solved on both guns which BOTH immediately before this operation, would hang before going fully back into battery by about 1/4"


If however you are NOT skilled with a dremel and REMOVE excess metal from the Trigger bar CAM, you will ruin the trigger bar assy. As such this would cause the Trigger bar CAM to not fully depress the firing pin (striker) safety plunger, keeping the gun from firing (not good, obviously)

I knew about this some time ago, such that in &#8220;fixing&#8221; the glock 21, not only is the 4256-1 trigger bar cruciform plate longer, but ALSO glock Inc. raised the height of the Trigger bar CAM, causing this unwanted drag on slide function.

Like driving down the road with your parking break on, this is the cause of the FEW failure to RTB. And even then, this problem solves itself with several 100 rounds of practice down the pipe. However the G30 SHOULD be 100% reliable out of box, and at the current cost of ammo, nobody should have to encounter this on a new glock, and I am 100% certain Glock not only knows this but has already 'updated' new G30SF, however WHEN this "update" began/begins is anyones guess.


** As such, this problem IS NOT a "G30SF" problem, but a problem with the new 4256-1 trigger bar as used in ANY Glock 30 model.

In proving same, I inserted a new 4256-1 trigger bar in an OLDER Glock 30 and had the same problem
 

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Only have a G23, but I suspected the trigger bar was the problem because many people who had the problem said they switched to aftermarket trigger bars and the problem was immidiately remedied.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Only have a G23, but I suspected the trigger bar was the problem because many people who had the problem said they switched to aftermarket trigger bars and the problem was immidiately remedied.

that is utterly logical, because aftermarket trigger bars do NOT have the raised trigger bar CAMS that the 4256-1 factory ones do.


Glock in its infinite "wisdom" used the 4256-1 in BOTH the G21 and G30, since it did that in the past for many years, but there is a discrepancy problem in using the 4256-1 TB's in the G30 models.

As such, here lies the problem, however it is both minor, and EASILY fixed.
 

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Thanks for your research and post, I'm considering either G19 or G30 for my next, and even though it wouldn't be sf, I was still worried about getting a bad apple.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks for your research and post, I'm considering either G19 or G30 for my next, and even though it wouldn't be sf, I was still worried about getting a bad apple.

Its not a G30SF problem, its the newer 4256-1 Trigger bar with raised CAM hitting the slide on RTB


Glock privately and 'secretly' lowered the trigger bar CAM height, without changing ANY designation on the 4256-1 trigger bar.

I found my NEWEST unshot glock 30, serial MVY***, has the 4256-1 bar, but the CAM has been lowered.

My digital calipers confirm this fact

Abra-cadabra!, problem solved on all new G30SF glocks.
 

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So actually the real resolution is to shoot the gun until the two offending parts wear to the point where they are no longer dragging. WOW, this was said on the first few pages.

But thanks for sharing. I just hope some idiot with a dremel doesn't take to much off and nullify the FPS's activation.

Also the frame rails are within normal limits, but some people think their magic nickel check shows their frames are defective.
 

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I also have an MVYxxx prefix G30SF with 50 rounds through it. I have the 4256-1 trigger bar with a tad of wear. No issues at all, awesome piece.




 

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If i use a G30 or older trigger bar for the .45 will it fix the problem?
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
If i use a G30 or older trigger bar for the .45 will it fix the problem?

A 4256 marked TB will fix the problem, the cam on the 4256 is lower than the 4256-1.

You should notice a skid/rub mark on the inside of the slide just before the safety plunger all the way out to the bottom edge of the extractor

OR more easily, if you feel skilled enough, remove a 1000th off the top of the cam head with NO GRINDING bit, but with a polishing bit, and then a buffing bit using flitz or another type of polishing agent.

repeat this as well with the striker safety plunger.


*** GLOCK INC. told me 2 years ago (as i recall it was 2 years) that the new 4256-1 trigger bar specifically was modified in two ways, longer (1mm) cruciform plate, and HIGHER CAM.

digital calipers confirm this fact unquestionably.
 

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And the squirrel takes off his hat !!!!!!!!

This is a marvelous bit of detective work CCI, and I thank everyone who took part in finding out what this problem really was all about.

What no one here has mentioned, is that the 4256-1 trigger bar was also used on (at least some) G20's as well. I have a G20 I bought new in August of last year, which has the 4256-1 on it, and had the RTB problem worse than any gun I've ever seen in my life. I tried several things to fix it, but never completely confirmed that my "fixes" really had anything to do with the slow improvement that happened over time as I shot the gun more and more. After reading this thread, I looked at my gun and confirmed that it DOES have all the exact problems described here. I've always felt a slight dragging on my slide as it goes back into battery - and still do - and thanks to you guys just confirmed that the trigger bar cam is hitting the slide just as CCI described.

I have a dremel, am a skilled metal worker, and forsee ths problem with my G20 being completely gone very soon after I log off of here tonight.

On a related note: Several months ago, there was a thread on here - I can't remember what the conversation was all about even though I was a part of it - where Arc Angel made some comments about the 4256-1 trigger bar and (I think) gave a reason why Glock had switched to it in the first place. I believe there was some previous problem that they wanted to solve that involved a safety issue. Maybe Arc will jump in here and remind me what it was all about, but if memory serves me correctly, it was more than just getting a harder hit from the striker.

Of all the threads I've ever read on GT, this one just gave me the most important bit of Glock education I've gotten yet. THANKS CCI !!!!
 

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Its not a G30SF problem, its the newer 4256-1 Trigger bar with raised CAM hitting the slide on RTB
IMO that's parsing words a bit. To any one with a G30SF with this problem, it is a problem with their G30SF.

The fix for most will no doubt be an aftermarket connector. Only then will their G30SF be fully functional...
 

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IMO that's parsing words a bit. To any one with a G30SF with this problem, it is a problem with their G30SF.
Well, yes and no... As I just posted above, My G20 also has the exact problem, and it's because of the 4256-1, which could have been installed on several different guns. Not just the G30SF.
 

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i used the dremel to smooth out the tb, but the plastic of the frame (right were the tb sits) is gone , the felt pad rubbed away a very small amount but when you but the gun together you can barelly tell. i know that it is stupid user error but question is will it cause any problems for my gun? like i said it is a very small amount.
Thanks!
 

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Why is this such a big issue? Seriously? Just shoot the damn gun and it will work itself out.
 
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