The Devil's Equation

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by furetto7, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. Triple Taps

    Triple Taps Best Friends

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    It is even worse in cities where they call the police dept. "Public Safety" and the police are the FD too. If they have a fire, they switch uniform to fire fighting gear, which some have in the police cars.
    This is a fair size city, which in the past had police separate from FD.

    I would never work for such a department. I would either be police or fireman, but never both. That is too much confusion and drama for a nickel. (my opinion)
     
  2. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Sunnyvale has that. It works because they staff the trucks -1 then the officers go to medicals in their beat. Considering a modest ranch home in their city goes for 2+ million they don't have a lot of crime. Pretty suburban. Fires are rare. Hazmat is probably the one thing they might get more than others due to tech using a lot of poison gas to make chips. That is mostly containment because Ithe companies that use the gas have strong protocols in place. I know a few people who work there.
     
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  3. fla2760

    fla2760

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    LAPD did a great job.


    View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JuOHJuORYa0
     
  4. pgg00

    pgg00

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    Rohnert Park is the same way. You get assigned to which section (fire or police) for your rotation that quarter
     
  5. 1L26

    1L26

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    Marina Ca was Public Safety. I don't know if they still are.
     
  6. Rezdawg

    Rezdawg

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    This is something that I’ve gone back and forth on for a few years now.
    My shift had a training night last night. Where we formed the common consensus that at minimum we are rolling with a rifle for the first officer on scene. I’m going to be looking into those magazine pouches that mount on the Stock so we have at minimum 56 rounds of 5.56.

    I’ve immersed myself for the last few weeks of setting up Plate Carriers for each car. I’ve got 3 set up so far and we are waiting for a set of AR500 plates for the 4th. We will have a spare in the Armory with the old ceramic plates.

    Each Carrier has 3 more magazines of 28 5.56 rounds, 2 Glock 22 magazines, an IFAK, and a radio pouch. We have those ridiculous magnetic BWC mounts so steel plates are needed.

    Personally when I’m working Solo I put my duty bag more magazines and medical gear over the passenger seat. And buckle the Plate Carrier in.

    We issue the Colt 933 (M4 commando, MK18). They will all be equipped the same by the new year. But that’s not the important fact. The important fact is that we can drop it from the rack, lock n load, and sling it while in the drivers seat.

    The next training session we get as a full shift, we are going to run more deployment drills, speed donning of the Carriers, and more room clearing as a team and solo.

    And for those that are worried about ballistic shields, would you rather have one guy who is slowing you down using a pistol or would you rather have another rifle and up armored shooter on your side?
     
  7. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    They went to traditional police and fire 10 or so years back.
     
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  8. msu_grad_121

    msu_grad_121 BOOSH

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    While there's something to be said for shield use, what some armchair experts like Big Shooter up there don't realize is, they're all but useless for a lone officer. You can't use a rifle, you can't open your own doors, you gas out quicker, you're less accurate with the pistol you're forced to use, etc.

    For anyone going on about a shield, think of it this way: what stops those active shooters who don't decide to off themselves in these situations? Outgoing rounds. Shields are great, but firearms solve these problems.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
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  9. CAcop

    CAcop

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    They split up around the time I got hired, maybe a little after. Somewhere around 20 years ago. Brisbane did the same thing probably 25-30 years ago. We had two instructors in my academy from there. One went PD, on went FD. It made sense even now they went where they did. The PD guy was a motor with a sawed off in his saddle bag and shells on his belt. The fire guy talked like Fire Marshal Bill.
     
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  10. CAcop

    CAcop

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    I thought it was longer. I remember one of their motors coming to work a beach day in 99. It was weird because the Boardwalk hired him. Full Marina PD uniform too.
     
  11. vista461

    vista461

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    When I was an SRO at my previous department I wouldn’t have taken the time to run out to my squad to get the rifle and plate carrier since I was basically already on scene.

    Now I would at least grab the rifle since it’s next to me in the squad, and I can get it out as I roll up. Plate carrier is in the back, and I’ll likely take the few seconds to grab that and throw it on as well.

    Half the time I’m the only one on duty, and a neighboring dept will be the back up. So there’s a decent chance I’ll be he only one there for at least a few minutes.
     
  12. Tomcat1977

    Tomcat1977 Unapologetic Deplorable.

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    I love the Boss's who think rifles are no edge when they themselves have never even shot one and can barely shoot their handguns. A long gun is a BIG edge.

    When I first came on we had one of our guys get his head blown off by a guy with a scoped 3006 after he had killed his landlady. Every shot their 12 or 18 rounds of their 6 shooters, mostly 12 with 1 speed strip, and ran out of ammo. We had to send guys back to the station for more ammo. The shooter later said he could have killed Many! more coppers if he wanted to cause he had us all in his sights.

    I could live with myself easily if I took a few moments to throw a vest on and unlock a rifle. Getting home myself that night is still my #1 priority and what good are you to anyone unless properly equipped?
     
  13. G17K

    G17K

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    I debated responding to this thread, as it brings up a lot of old memories. However, maybe it will shed some light on these things, and maybe the information can be used!
    #1) I was in Columbine H.S. as a SWAT cop 20 years ago, and it did not take hours as previously stated. Many responding officers and deputies had their kids in the school that day. The entry was however (in my opinion too slow). It was a multi-jurisdictional response! The command/s attempted to run the operation from outside the school, from the command post. In these active shooter situations, the proverbial dogs have to be let off the leash to get into the buildings as quickly as they come on scene. Command needs to have enough faith in their troops to do the right thing and they can be briefed later. Columbine had two shooters, and that was the first time we had run into that type of situation in this community!
    #2) After Columbine, I was one of many instructors who attempted to teach the masses from lessons we learned from the mistakes we made.
    What did we do right?
    What did we do wrong?
    What could we have done better?
    One of the things I used to tell patrol officers, if you have a tac vest, have your gear set up and ready to roll. If you have to dig for magazines, rifles, etc., it is no good! The vest needs to be set up so it drops over the head or zipped up, cinch it up, grab your rifle, charge it, and get in there. Every time a gunshot goes off, a kid or victim, without a vest just got executed.
    As stated by one of the outside instructors, that trained me said, "speed, surprise, and violence of action" is usually needed to resolve the situation.
    Most of these shooters are cowards! As soon as they get confronted by someone who is armed, trained, and ready to fight, they consider suicide as an option. Most of these will be over before you get on scene. Getting in there is paramount to saving as many lives as you can.
    Hopefully, you won't run into a jurisdictional nightmare of Columbine but, know your actions or lack thereof, will be criticized and second guessed for the rest of your careers.
    The training seems to have evolved greatly since Columbine, and I am grateful for that!
    May God be your partner if you do have to roll on the real deal!
    Stay safe!
     
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  14. Tomcat1977

    Tomcat1977 Unapologetic Deplorable.

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    I'm sorry you had to see that G17. Ive gone it after shooters but never on that Level, and yes, surprise and aggressiveness is on your side.

    The training is probably better but it varies from Dept. to Dept. . There is a great deal of confusion at these things even if your shop is the only one showing up. My last one was a triple and I didnt know the shooter had already killed himself when I had to search the house for him because the first officer there had frozen up and couldn't speak on the radio after seeing three people with their heads blown off. They let him take a short vacation after and I got stuck with his paper.

    Even I got a little short on breath looking for the shooter, tho I functioned well. I knew my time was coming, that kind of stuff wouldn't even get my BP up in my '30's but in my 50's??

    Going in with a team who's moves you know is so much easier. These grab bag responses are much more volatile but what else can you do? Someone has to go in.
     
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  15. ray9898

    ray9898

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    I will always grab my rifle because it is in a rack beside me. I cannot say I would pop the hatch and get my plate carrier and helmet on if I am standing there listening to persistent gun fire. 30 seconds is an eternity in a target rich environment