The Agnostic Case Against Abortion

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by elgoatropo, Oct 6, 2010.

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  1. elgoatropo

    elgoatropo

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    The subject of abortion has been re-hashed so many times, yet it always strikes me that both camps refuse to answer the other side's questions. Instead, it becomes a red herring-fest.
    It would be fascinating to hear the issue discussed without the familiar cliches.

    Please sound off if you are a person of faith, and pro-choice. Likewise, any agnostics or atheists, state your reasons for being opposed to abortion.

    I will recuse myself, since I meet neither qualification.
     
  2. Diesel_Bomber

    Diesel_Bomber

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    Well crap, I wanted a good excuse to rant and rave, but I'm not religious and I'm pro choice. I look forward to the discussion.
     

  3. TalkToTheGlock

    TalkToTheGlock Zombie Hunter

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    I am an Atheist.

    I believe that Abortion is not justified when there is no potential harm to the mother and/or there is a SEVERE abnormal defect with the fetus.

    The thing is. We can never change this and it will never change. I am a pro-stem cell research person as I am in the sciences and want to go into research when I am done school. While there has been no justifiable explanation or conclusion that embryonic stem cells have any medicinal purpose, we must strive forward. Adult stem cells have provided far more scientific and medical gain than any other brand of stem cell. And while these fetus's are destroyed, why not put them to good use for societys benefit. Just because there isn't any proof, doesn't mean there's nothing there (As a person of faith, you understand, I hope).

    Anyway. I think abortion is morally wrong and irresponsible. If you do not want the child, there are plenty of people around the globe that would kill to have a child that is unable to have one.

    Do I think it is murder? No.

    Do I think it is the right choice in some cases? Yes (health reasons)

    Do I think that there should be an adoption instead? Yes.

    Do I think women need to keep their legs closed and men keep their zippers zipped? Check. That is the correct answer. Irresponsible morons who breed cause harm to others either directly or inadvertantly.

    That's my view as an Atheist. I do not believe in God. I do not believe that it is murder. But, I do believe, barring some health related issues with the mother/fetus, that abortion is wrong and should be banned and mandatory adoption to take it's place.


    On a side note. Why keep chasing for the cure for cancer when it is already here? The FDA won't approve of the restriction enzyme Cancer "destroyer" oligiodioxyribose from Colorado Springs research facility that has cured a few hundred cases of close to 50 types of cancers. What gives?

    Thank you,
    TTG
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  4. Ballistic40

    Ballistic40

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    I see this thread really going places.
     
  5. *ASH*

    *ASH* FURBANITE

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    YEAH TO THE LOCKHOUSE :rofl:
     
  6. wavetrain75

    wavetrain75 Useless Member

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    Abortion is the most evil act that one human being can perpetrate on another. When the one human being who is able to protect the most vulnerable life is willing to kill it because it is inconvenient, what morality do we have left?
     
  7. Mabo

    Mabo Want a beer?

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    Agnostic here, I'm fine with abortion until the fetus is capable of feeling pain (not just reacting to a stimulus), after that I disagree with it. Of course others are free to form their own opinion but I'm sure some won't be so open minded...


    Oh and I predict a locked thread by the 3rd page.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  8. Norske

    Norske Millennium Member

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    I am agnostic.

    It is the mother's choice.

    Even if it is made illegal, the coathanger service providers will always come out of the woodwork to meet the demand for their services.

    The father might have a vote, but ultimately it is only the mother who can decide.

    It is no one elses' business. Everyone else should butt out.
     
  9. JLB768

    JLB768 Old & Grumpy Lifetime Member

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    So what if a woman is raped? Should she be forced to carry the child of a rapist, reminded every day of the violent act committed against her?
     
  10. NorthCarolinaLiberty

    NorthCarolinaLiberty MentalDefective

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    Atheists have values and beliefs just life anyone else, but the difference is where those values originate. Atheists who are humanists will say that their beliefs come from within the person. People of faith will say beliefs originate outside the person. The two groups can believe the exact same thing (e.g., pro-life), but the difference will be the origin of those beliefs.
     
  11. hpracing007

    hpracing007

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    I'm an agnostic and I think people should do whatever they choose but... if it were my unborn... that would bother me. Like Norske said, it'd be the mother's choice ultimately but, if I was in that situation, personally, I wouldn't care for it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  12. Diesel_Bomber

    Diesel_Bomber

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    Look at the "parents" a lot of these children will be born to and be raised by. With such a raising, what kind of life is that person going to have? Very likely they will have kids themselves, be unable to raise them properly, and only perpetuate the cycle of pain. What is more moral, again?

    Yes, adoption is better. Yes, abstinence or proper use of birth control is even better still. However, a good solid real world solution that actually works..........is abortion. It's cheaper than paying for welfare and building prisons.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  13. NorthCarolinaLiberty

    NorthCarolinaLiberty MentalDefective

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    I believe the old name for people like you is agitator.

    Ah, just kidding.

    :wavey:
     
  14. TalkToTheGlock

    TalkToTheGlock Zombie Hunter

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    You throw me a curve ball based on a statement directed towards irresponsible and immature people? That's low. j/k


    I mean, we can look at it both ways. As you have stated, it would be detrimental and cause mental HEALTH issues. As I have stated before, if there is cause for harm to either the mother or the fetus, I find it justified. There are more than one types of health. Mental health is probably the most important, even more so than physical health. People can usually recover from physical trauma, where as mental trauma can affect a person for the rest of their life. Especially knowing that their child was the production of being raped. Severe isolation and attachment problems would cause problems for both mother and child. I say it is to the discretion of the person raped, honestly.


    On the other hand, we can say it is still life, from a biological view. All life is precious, no matter what religious belief or thought. Why not save the fetus and give it a life?


    There are many ways to approach many things. Individual basis is the major component in your scenario. Me personally, I would say abortion is the only option, especially if I was that womans husband/boyfriend/etc.


    Thanks,
    TTG
     
  15. TalkToTheGlock

    TalkToTheGlock Zombie Hunter

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    That's a fairly broad statement as a good chunk of people in prison had good childhoods and an even greater percentage of serial killers had a good childhood. It's not only about how you are raised, but who you are surrounded with in life that determines if you will be a convict or a scholar.

    Should we abort the possible friends of serial killers also?
     
  16. vikingsoftpaw

    vikingsoftpaw DEPLORABLE ME!

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    Roman Catholic

    I don't believe in Abortion except in cases where is would be necessary for health issues.

    I believe that life begins at conception. It's not my religous view. I've looked into enough microscopes to come to that conclusion.

    I doubt if I'll ever change of conviction of someone across the isle and I'm OK with that.
     
  17. Adams454

    Adams454

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    I don't believe in the existence of any diety. I never have. But I still think that abortion is wrong. If you don't go through the act of an abortion, a child results. That tells me that you are ending the life of a child and that is wrong. The only cases that I can justify would be rape or health issues for the mother or child.
     
  18. AaronZR2

    AaronZR2

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    I'm curious about this. You generally believe it's wrong but don't believe it's murder, why?

    (Legitimate question, not trying to be a smartass)
     
  19. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

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    In a perfect world, the bumper sticker would read: "Abortion: Don't like it? Don't have one". HH
     
  20. UTKEngineer

    UTKEngineer

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    Per my views:

    A sperm or an egg is not a life. You can give either a hospitable environment and all the nutrients it needs and it will never be anything other than a sperm or an egg.

    At the other end of the spectrum you have a child who just came into this world kicking and screaming. That is, by most accounts, a life.

    So, somewhere in the middle there is a profound change from cells w/o promise to a living being.

    If you start with the child in the doctors hands and move backward one microsecond at a time, where can you define a profound change. I mean at time t = x we have life but at time t = x minus one micro second there is definitely not life?

    Because the process of gestation is a series of nearly infinitesimal changes (cell by cell) there is no definite point, except for conception, where we can argue with any confidence that before there is no life. So, I believe that is where we should draw the line.

    I have friends who argue that point is when the fertilized egg implants on the uterine wall. I can see the logic behind that, but am personally unconvinced.

    Theology not needed.
     
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