Terminal performance comparison: G27 vs G23

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by snowbird.40, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. snowbird.40

    snowbird.40

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    Not sure if this is the right forum for this discussion; if not, moderator please move to proper location.

    For years I carried a G27 in a Galco Ultimate Second Amendment with Federal HST 180-grain hollow points. Over the last 7-9 years I've transitioned (along with lots of other folks) to 9mm and still carry HSTs, but in the 124-grain standard pressure loadings.

    A few weeks ago I bought an old LEO gun from a friend who retired in about 2016 after 20 years with a major metropolitan police department. He sold me his Gen 2 G23 for $250 with three 13-round magazines. I'm like a pig in a wallow topped with frosting and cherry. My goal was to have less money invested in a home defense gun that could also be used for early morning or late evening walks around our (very) safe planned community. This weapon certainly meets that criteria.

    I've got it packed with Federal HST 180-grain loads.

    I place a certain amount of trust in the Lucky Gunner ballistic gel tests which have recorded 18.5" of penetration and .72" of very uniform expansion from a G27 with a barrel length of 3.42" through four layers of cloth.

    So, now I'm wondering what difference it might make shooting that same bullet from a G23 with a barrel that's 4.02" long. Also, where I live, it's typically shirtsleeve and shorts weather, so I probably won't run into four layers of fabric.

    Any suggestions or input on the terminal performance of this combination?

    Thanks for your experience.
     
  2. 133124

    133124 Previously BgDnTx

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    My rule of thumb for most handgun ammo is 50-100 fps per inch of barrel. But there are many variables. Too many to really care. Terminal performance is when the assailant drops.
     
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  3. ReaPer105

    ReaPer105

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    Those HST's perform very well out of a stock Glock 22 so I have no doubt they will do the job out of a 23, particularly if they perform well out of a 27 too.
     
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  4. snowbird.40

    snowbird.40

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    Thanks for the replies. Big D, I have no doubt in your wisdom … if the bullet hits home (COM or cranium), it will have the desired effect and end the violence on the part of the perpetrator.
     
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  5. 133124

    133124 Previously BgDnTx

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    Yes. Thanks for the like.
     
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  6. 133124

    133124 Previously BgDnTx

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    HST has shown to be a round that dependably, and often, expands in many calibers, and many conditions. So I use them. But remember this statistic among so many: jhp expansion occurs about 60% of the time. Me? I stagger rds in the mag: jhp fmj jhp fmj ... helps with penetration and barriers.
     
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  7. cadillacguns

    cadillacguns Millennium Member

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    Well back in the day, when the .40 came out, the 40/9 ammo was different.

    Now, compare say a 147 gr 9mm, and a 165 gr .40, fired into test gel not much different in a recovered HST nowadays.

    Bullet performance has changed since the G22/23 days of the early 90’s.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  8. cciman

    cciman

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    Numbers mean nothing if the bullet misses the mark.

    If it hits correctly, the difference is moot.
     
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  9. gjarcher

    gjarcher Captain USN ret.

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    Terminal Performance Difference ... which is the title of the post ... won't be significantly different due to barrel length. If the OEM ammo uses a fast burning powder to accommodate short barrels, you may not see more than 30-40 fps muzzle velocity increase. If you reload using slower burning powders that take advantage of longer barrel length, you may see 50-75 pfs MV increase.
    However, when talking "terminal performance", the difference between 900 fps and 1000 fps of bullet expansion and penetration under 10 yds would hardly be measurable.
    Just my 2¢
     
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  10. 1canvas

    1canvas

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    18.5” of penetration of a .72” expanded bullet from a 3.42” G27 barrel, your trust is surely misplaced.
     
  11. GlockFan7

    GlockFan7

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    You're talking about my two favorite Glocks there. I doubt that there's an extreme difference in ballistics nor accuracy, depending on who's shooting it.
     
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  12. 1canvas

    1canvas

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    If JHP ammo only expands 60% of the time there’s no need to stagger rounds, 40% will zip right through.
     
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  13. LostinTexas

    LostinTexas Exploring Alternate Routes

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    I would not suggest betting the farm, or anything else on Lucky Gunner "testing". You will probably not get anywhere close to 18 inches of penetration from a 180 grain HST or much of anything else designed for SD in that weight.
    LG uses clear gel and it just isn't ordinance gel. It is easy, clear, shows expansion comparisons, and the same with some barriers like clothing. It isn't the real deal, no matter how many people think it is a good substitute. It will show very optimistic penetration results and is inconsistant. Unfortunately there is no magical formula to get them to compair.
    OK, the choice you made is very good, and arguably one of the best of choices. See if you and the pistol like 165 grain HST, Bonded Golden Saber, Winchester Defend or some others. It seems to get a little more penetration in ordinance gel, but that isn't the end all result. One that I look for, but not the end all.
    In reality, you may get a little less penetration out of the 23 because the round should have a slight bump in velocity. In theory a little more expansion and a little less penetration thanks to the barrel length.
    Don't sweat it. The 23 is a fine pistol and the ammo choice isn't a micromanagment issue. Use good ammo, and you already are. You'll be fine.
     
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  14. 133124

    133124 Previously BgDnTx

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    Possibly. But fmj will penetrate deeper because they will not deform as a partial expanding jhp will. And in barriers fmj will retain more of its weight, again being more effective for that purpose.