Tarnished cases, beyond polishing, lifespan

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by OXMYX, May 12, 2018.

  1. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?
    What does that have to do with your claim of of tarnish and/or "the elements" causing embrittlement of [cartridge] brass?

    I refer you to your statement in post #8,

    "...The brass may have become brittke over that much exposure,...."

    Embrettlement is the loss of ductility of a metal, it has nothing to do with how brown it is.

    You don't seem to understand the question (post #16), or are trying to divert away from your claim.
     
  2. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?
    Well, not really. The tarnish does not protect the brass against rust/rusting, as you claimed in post #1. Brass doesn't rust because rust is iron oxide; to rust, the alloy must have a significant amount of iron in the alloy. Cartridge brass is copper and zinc - no iron so no rust.

    Maybe you and Fred should get together and discuss metallurgy.
     
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  3. OXMYX

    OXMYX

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    I punched out the primers on some of the worst ones and they felt tighter and dragged on the way out. Upon inspection the primer pocket had white flakes, corrosion, on the bottom. The flash hole looks Ok. These will be thrown away.
     
  4. 10or45

    10or45

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    Rust is Fe2O3. Would you not consider Fe3O4 rust since it is also iron oxide? I also toss brown brass. Not worth my time. I spend my time in metallurgy on worthwhile metals.
     
  5. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?
    What does that have to do with brass not containing iron, and therefore not rusting?

    Cartridge brass is certainly a worthwhile metal to all shooters.
     
  6. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Pec I told you, deoends on what the brass is exposed to, how long, etc. I cant make that any clearer. Brass taking high oressure is not a belt buckle or handle on a boat.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  7. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Here pec
    http://homepages.uc.edu/~maynarjb/Frontpage sites/603/GeochemWater/Brass_corrosion.html
     
  8. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?
    No Fred, you have not given anything, at all, to explain how tarnish or "exposure to the elements" causes brass to become brittle, ie. lose ductility. You keep referring to tarnished brass being brown, hard to clean, hard to inspect, etc. - all of which has absolutely nothing to do with embrettlement - now, "out of the air" you are babbling about boat handles and belt buckles ?

    And, well, you still haven't. Your reference doesn't have anything about loss of ductility of brass - it discusses corrosion of plumbing fittings.

    By now, I'm pretty sure you don't understand what embrittlement means.
     
  9. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Read the stupid article. Zinc & lead leaches out of the brass, potentially making it brittle. Sorry, maybe it is just too early or late for reading comprehension PEC. Plumbing parts or soaking brass cases, I would think wet is wet??
    Again, feel free to load brass that has been sitting in water for months/years, I am sure it is fine. Not babbling at all, just pointing out that boat brass has nothing to do with a piece of brass that must contain 35K psi. Another post was saying something about brass on boats, apples & oranges. I don't claim to be a metallurgist but I can read.
    http://www.werc.com/2016/07/28/dezincification-failure-of-brass-components/
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  10. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?
    Show me were the article states this, and lead doesn't leach out of cartridge brass - there isn't any lead in it.
     
  11. fredj338

    fredj338

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    I know you can read PEC. My statement stands, severely tarnished brass cases may be structurally unsound, brittle or what ever you wan to call it.
    Brass is a metallic alloy that is made of copper and zinc. The proportions of zinc and copper can vary to create different types of brass alloys with varying mechanical and electrical properties.[1] It is a substitutional alloy: atoms of the two constituents may replace each other within the same crystal structure.
    In contrast,
    bronze is an alloy of copper and tin.[2] Both bronze and brass may include small proportions of a range of other elements including arsenic, lead, phosphorus, aluminium, manganese, and silicon. The distinction is largely historical.[3] Modern practice in museums and archaeology increasingly avoids both terms for historical objects in favour of the all-embracing "copper alloy".[4]
     
  12. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?
    Yes, I know I can read. You still haven't given any thing that shows tarnished "exposed to the elements" [cartridge] brass is likely to have become embrittled.

    I am, however, beginning to wonder if you can read in detail. Now you are babbling about museums, bronze and elements that aren't even in cartridge brass - going even so far as to highlight these non-related topics.

    I never questioned that severely corroded brass might be compromised, or that it might not be worthwhile to reload (another set of your distractors).

    I only asked how the brass would become embrittled. You provided two (2) articles (which I appreciate), but neither address embrittlement (as applied to this discussion).

    "Brittle" does not mean that a material is not strong, nor does [higher] ductility mean that a material is strong. A more ductile material will have a greater plastic region in a S/S curve than a less ductile material (and typically a smaller elastic region).
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  13. fredj338

    fredj338

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    The articles are to pont out dezincification, leaching if zinc & other trace ekements that weaken brass. If you are hung up on the word brittle, substitute what you like. Or use heavily tarnished brass, I dont really care. Imo, heavily tarnished brass has lost structural integrity, how ever you want put that. If you are unsure, research it yourself. This 5y old "show me" crap gets old.
     
  14. 10or45

    10or45

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    Agreed cartridge brass is worthwhile to all shooters. My point was I don't consider severely weathered brass worthwhile to me; since I don't smelt and re alloy brass/ draw new cases. I will say this is where I am now since I have access to good brass. I won't say I never will however. You never know what the future holds. I currently tumble in walnut hulls with a touch of red rouge. I like shiny and clean.:cowboy:
     
  15. OXMYX

    OXMYX

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    I think we need to Rockwell these cases.
    Hardness Spec: Cartridge Brass: HRB 93
    Cartridge brass is amongst the hardest of the brass family.


    Personally I don't know if the hardness would change unless something forceful acted upon it. Running it over with a forklift or exposing it to temps > 1000 degrees.
     
  16. SBray

    SBray

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    At the outdoor ranges I shoot at I usually see brass that has not been noticed by other shooters and the range staff. It’s obvious it has been exposed to the weather for a period of time. I would never bother picking it up considering there is so much plentiful fresh brass to be had for the taking. Life is too short to hassle with it!

    JMHO,
    Steve
     
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  17. mc1911

    mc1911

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    I w
    I would tumble it, load it and leave it where it lands.
     
  18. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 13 Air Medals.

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    At least have the courtesy of picking them up and recycle them or throw them in the trash or the range recycling buckets. Then leaving them for someone else to pick up your mess.
     
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  19. mc1911

    mc1911

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    I do at the range . Out in the field the cases usually disappear in the grass or brush.
     
  20. OXMYX

    OXMYX

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    .380 is gold so I pick them all up. During the LCP, P238 craze I could get fresh brass just by asking the shooter next to me if I could have it.

    Now it's all 9mm. I've gotten to hate 9mm because it interferes with mining 380, and I've got so much 9mm it's running out of my ears but I can't resist picking up those fresh, shiny cases as long as I'm laboring, picking up brass.

    But someday the government will tax ammo (more than they do now), then it'll be a gold rush to reload. Case prices will skyrocket and ranges will go to a "can't pick up brass" policy.