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Tangkilikin Ang Sariling Atin - My Armscor Saga

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by revo, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. revo

    revo

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    In 2003, I bought a cheap Armscor HiCap for $250 and it shot really bad. I was motivated more by patriotic sentimentality and curiosity than common sense to buy this gun. At that time, Phil-made 1911s were unheard of in the USA.

    It shot really low and group really badly. It also developed a trigger problem later on.

    I resolved to invest in this gun for sentimental reasons since it's my only Philippine-made gun.

    I had the following upgrades done -

    1) New Para barrel and frame cut by Limcat custom. Cost - $200. That didn't fix the problem because I didn't tell Johnny Lim to fit the barrel but just do the frame cut.

    Also, at this time, the gun developed a trigger problem. You had to pull it all the way to the back to make it fire.

    Diyos ko po !!

    2) Then I had the gun evaluated at Tussey Custom at Carson City, Nevada. They basically fixed the trigger problem by replacing all internal action parts and did an accuracy job. Cost - $436. Tussey said that the basic cause of the problem was that internal geometry of the gun was all out of spec.

    Well, this is how it shoots now and it's showing great promise.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/x_revo_x/257878837/

    The flyers are sighting shots.

    Total cost of gun plus upgrades : US$886

    Value of an accurate gun made in the Philippines and customized by a well-respected American gunsmith : Priceless.
     
  2. trozau

    trozau troy ounce gold

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    With all the mods/changes/upgrades done, it really isn't the same Phil made gun anymore, is it? :headscratch:
     

  3. revo

    revo

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    In the US, the receiver or what we call the 'frame' is the gun.

    All other components are 'parts'.

    I don't know how it works in the Philippines.
     
  4. MELBU

    MELBU Ann2Tero

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    Yeah its kinda Amerasian na.:supergrin:

    I once owned 2 Armscor products when i was still a newbie in practical
    shooting, 1 Hi-cap and 1 Stainless Charles
    Daly. The Armscor Hi-cap has too many sharp edges i had filed
    specially the slide and inside finish of the ramp and barrel, after more
    or less 1,000 rounds the barrel link broke.
    Worse is the Armscor made Charles Day, aside from the very bad finish
    inside and outside of the gun, the slide rattles after 500rnds only.
    (if you buy a Charles Daly here in the Philippines the look is very
    different than those in the pictures in the magazines or websites,
    they have really bad finish)

    I hate to say this but yeah Filipino ako pero hindi yata lahat ng
    Pinoy products are good. (maybe i just got lemons? or bad timing?)

    I hope Armscor makes better products now. Kakahiya kasi ipagmalaki eh
    Pinoy pa naman ako.
     
  5. mtho

    mtho

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    you said it shot low, but did it group well when you got it in 2003? if it did group well i would've adjusted the zero of the sight. about the trigger pull, If it was me i would have droped in a cmc , egw or extreme engeneering trigger set (hammer,sear and disconnector)

    I think you have a fil-am pistol.
     
  6. revo

    revo

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    mtho,

    According to Tussey Custom, gun geometry itself was out of spec. They had to take replace the internal lockwork with standard parts and tweak them in order to make them work.

    I am not kidding myself by saying that Armscor quality is top-notch compared to a Colt or a Kimber. Armscor quality is clearly not match gun quality yet - out of the box.

    But then again, apparently the gun can be tweaked to make it shoot well. For now, that comes at a price more than the cost of the gun. But in time, as long as Armscor sticks to its basic value proposition, hopefully quality will improve.

    That's my take on it.
     
  7. revo

    revo

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    And, no, the gun did not group well at that time.
     
  8. isuzu

    isuzu

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    Were you able to see Tussey's line of Hybrid Officer's .45s?
     
  9. revo

    revo

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    I seem to recall only two noteworthy Officer 1911's at John and Terry's table during the Hilton shows.

    One, Terry's own personal Officer 1911 - black frame and white grips - very nice gun and two, an Officer with the SFS hammer system. Never saw one of those before.

    I don't recall seeing any more Officer's like you mentioned. But then again, we discussed only my guns and I didn't pay attention too much to the guns on the table.

    It was Terry who told me about the so-called 'Marcos' Officer's 1911 he made during the '70's.
     
  10. batangueno

    batangueno Shock Resist

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    Same observation that a local gunsmith gave regarding armscor 1911s, that's why armscor have an army of gunsmiths fitting all the parts together. With their recent acquisition of CNC machines, hopefully the new armscor 1911s would be better.

    The fun of having a 1911 is the upgrade process, magastos nga lang talaga. The good thing is that you didn't have to buy a kimber then have all those work done for you which would really turn out more expensive. :)
     
  11. PMMA97

    PMMA97 TagaBundok

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    Paano kaya malalaman kung CNC manufactured na ang Armscor unit? (without taking it apart)
     
  12. Kaiser Soze

    Kaiser Soze Notorious

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    I was able to fire a friend's Medallion series Armscor1911 - ang ganda! Then he told me that it was almost as expensive as a Para-Ord because it was made to the specifications of a certain Mr. Manny Sunico!!! Kaya naman pala, this one is great out of the box!

    Yung dad ko naman gumawa ng Parang-Ordnance, he took a hi-cap armscor, had a bar-sto barrel, then STI parts, had the thing checkered and serrated, chromed...GWAPO NA!
     
  13. mtho

    mtho

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    ako naman heard some horror stories about the medallion, I dunno maybe they export the good ones and leave the bad ones here for local consumption. pero kung kasing mahal ng para ord i'd expect a warranty of somesort, maybe they could replace or repair the unit to meet a promissed standard kasi more than double na yung price na binabayad mo eh. personally I'd go for their frame and some parts and get a smith to build it right (like 9mx's samscor) para custom gun hindi production it'll probably end up cheaper that a factory para but you get premium parts in it na, ganda na ng bare frame nila might even be better than imported ones. or get their basic gun and have it customized.
     
  14. Kaiser Soze

    Kaiser Soze Notorious

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    Can you share some of the horror stories sir?
     
  15. mtho

    mtho

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    well na meet ko yung owner nung gun sa gunsmith tapos kinikwento nya yung medallion nya di daw maganda yung fit nang barrel sa frame kaya di mag group ng mabuti....tapos ang mahal na wala pang waranty so ginastusan din nya pinalitan nya ng (imported) barrel pero this time naman defective yung barrel and nabasag pero me warranty na yung nabilhan nya and sinagot yung bagong barrel and the gunsmithing... think about it yung imported na barrel me warranty dito pero yung local natin and premium at that wala syang napala. maganda na yung frame ng armscor in my opinion better pa kesa sa kinopyahan nila. so i suggest kesa mag medallion ka gawin mo nalang yung ginagawa ni 9mx same lang gastos mo best parts pa yung nakakabit.
     
  16. isuzu

    isuzu

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    There were rumors circulating around when I was still living in the Philippines regarding Armscor products.

    The rumors was that those who passed quality inspection got to be exported to the US. Those who didn't were sold locally.

    I even saw ammo that had a stamp on the box which said "for range use only."
     
  17. Kaiser Soze

    Kaiser Soze Notorious

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    Thanks for the input sirs! I only know 1 medallion owner, so it was good to hear your stories as well. :thumbsup:
     
  18. Chie

    Chie

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    i purchased my .40 armscor 2 yrs. ago, as soon as it was released it went straight to the gunsmith. the gunsmith only did minor tuning until now it runs smoothly with gauged reloaded ammo.

    accuray is ok...
    fitting is not that bad...

    but i replaced all the internals to get a better trigger action. frame, slide and barrel is still original armscor.

    i think i have 4k rounds through it...

    :)
     
  19. MELBU

    MELBU Ann2Tero

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    Problem bro is the resale value, no matter what imported parts you
    put in it, its still armscor value hehehe.

    Its ok to buy an armscor gun. I am assmebling a single stack right
    now pang laspagan ba , kawawa na kasi mga colts ko baka mabugbog
    ng husto eh. Shattap da mawth na nga ako....:tongueout: hehe j/k
     
  20. pipo

    pipo

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    planning to get an armscor hicap myself. In another forum someone there said the RIA slide are made of 4140 "forged" steel na. Been so for at least 6 months na daw. So forged slide on cast frame na ba ngayon ang armscor?