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Ba-nan-nah-nuh
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was registering an exhibit for the Ravalli County Fair today and one of the Montana Highway Patrol asked me an interesting question about how I felt CCW v OC was a deterrent to crime and threats to life.

He followed up with a rhetorical situation:

"Your in line at a bank and some bad guys come in with the intent to rob the place and they are waving handguns and a shotgun around as a threat".

Then he asked me: "Do you think the Open Carry person is going to be as safe as the CCW because the bad guys can see he's armed and they take him out as a potential threat"?

I really didn't have an answer so I'm asking here:

If the bad guy(s) see that you are armed, does that make you an instant target in a situation like above?

Me? I'm still thinking about if.

FWIW: I have a CCW that I only 'technically' use when I am walking/hiking inside cities limits from fishing spot to fishing spot.

Remember that I own my Glock 20 for bear defense --- and NO! I don't want to open the "Bear" question here .... or again. This is about CCW and OC.
 

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Ba-nan-nah-nuh
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I would carry concealed even if I was allowed to open-carry.

Why advertise?

Why put a target on your back?
I understand you.

Montana allows ANYONE to CCW outside of city limits or outside of mining camps (I dunnow either- I'm baffled by that one!)

So the issue of CCW becomes moot outside of those boundaries.

Whereas, OC is legal by anyone anywhere outside of governmental reservations and VA facilities, post offices, etc., so it's not an issue here in Montana either.

CCW in a car without a CCW permit is legal anywhere....city or county... for anyone, citizen of Montana or not.

I got stopped once and the city cop asked me if I was carrying and if so to not show it to him. He just wanted to meet-n-greet me. No ticket nor ticketable offense.
 

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If the bad guy(s) see that you are armed, does that make you an instant target in a situation like above?
Maybe yes, maybe no. Only one way to find out...

With that said, I and my wife have concealed carry since the mid 80s. Three different states now, EDC, from sunup to sundown. Its a part of life. Carried before I was a LEO and now after. I don't open carry. I did open carry while in uniform as a full time LEO Patrol Officer, but even when I worked plain clothes - it was concealed.
 

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I was registering an exhibit for the Ravalli County Fair today and one of the Montana Highway Patrol asked me an interesting question about how I felt CCW v OC was a deterrent to crime and threats to life.

He followed up with a rhetorical situation:

"Your in line at a bank and some bad guys come in with the intent to rob the place and they are waving handguns and a shotgun around as a threat".

Then he asked me: "Do you think the Open Carry person is going to be as safe as the CCW because the bad guys can see he's armed and they take him out as a potential threat"?

I really didn't have an answer so I'm asking here:

If the bad guy(s) see that you are armed, does that make you an instant target in a situation like above?

Me? I'm still thinking about if.

FWIW: I have a CCW that I only 'technically' use when I am walking/hiking inside cities limits from fishing spot to fishing spot.

Remember that I own my Glock 20 for bear defense --- and NO! I don't want to open the "Bear" question here .... or again. This is about CCW and OC.
Professor KV gave the best answer. I always taught my CHL folks to "fly under the radar" whenever possible...the extra few seconds you save during a SD situation by being concealed, May just save your life....I see no good reason for OC.
However, I have and do OC on occasion...but only when hiking in remote mountains near my home...Never in a any public place.
 

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It seems to me Open Carry would be more of a burden than Concealed. Don't jump on me about 2nd Amendment rights or the seriousness of carrying a firearm. I carry a gun to protect myself, not to be the center of attention to everybody in town that notices I am carrying. Don't you want to go about your daily business without being noticed by everyone with one good eye that you have a gun on your belt? You get everything from, Why do you need that Thing! To, Hey! Cool gun! What caliber is that? I don't want people to notice me because I protect myself with a gun.
Very wordy, but isn't life easier without a lot of attention?
 

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NC allows open carry But in the 20 years we have lived here I have yet to see anyone OC except at some odd ball demonstration in Asheville by some OC nut jobs some years back .

Now is OC Is it a deterrent ? Beats me but I'm sure a OC'er is more likely to have people call 911 or scream- Man With A Gun !! I more afraid of a under experienced LE shooting at ME than deciding if a BG need to be confronted or dispatched . I have conceal carried for 32 years behind me and only two occasions of concern but I did not need to clear my holster so for my OC is something I would only do while HUNTING .
 

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Ba-nan-nah-nuh
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
NC allows open carry But in the 20 years we have lived here I have yet to see anyone OC except at some odd ball demonstration in Asheville by some OC nut jobs some years back .

Now is OC Is it a deterrent ? Beats me but I'm sure a OC'er is more likely to have people call 911 or scream- Man With A Gun !! I more afraid of a under experienced LE shooting at ME than deciding if a BG need to be confronted or dispatched . I have conceal carried for 32 years behind me and only two occasions of concern but I did not need to clear my holster so for my OC is something I would only do while HUNTING .
What's strange is that there are a lot of OCs in Montana . I see them daily. A few are scary looking, others not so much so.

Like I said, if one does not have a CCW permit in Montana, then OC is the only option.... this inside city limits or mining camps (and again, I do not understand the latter counterendorsement).

I suspect that by computing on my fingers and toes that the CCWs outnumber the OCs by .... uhm.... maybe 30-to-1 in any given crowd here, so all basses seem to be covered.

Have no fear, Montana is well armed, secretly or not.

EDIT: .... and nobody runs screaming about a gun in view! It's a lifestyle here and there's no shock-n-awe about it...... except for some of the foreign tourists and people from California.

Most tourists though, seem to handle it well.

Californians seem more awed by the ability to purchase a can of spray paint without needing to call the store manager to unlock the display cabinet.
 

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In any situation where someone is committed to a violent act, yes, shooting any potential threat to them is a valid idea. Why I am not a fan of OC in general urban areas. It can certainly deter the petty thug but the committed maniac, uh no. You just get hammered first.
 

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I'm glad Texas passed open carry for licensed carriers just because I don't need to get overly paranoid about printing. I have seen two people carrying open that I can recall. The first was a little, but heavy, fellow in Home Depot. I walked past him (my normal gate) and he gave me a look out of the side of his eye. To which I thought - you better be more aware of who is coming up behind you than that when carrying a .45 in a OWB pancake, friction fit holster. A 12 year-old could have snatched that off of him. I don't know of any LEO's that would be crazy enough not to open carry with a bright badge on unless the holster has a retention system designed to defeat such an easy grab. That said, I do open carry sometimes on my land in the country, but aint' nobody "snekin" up on me there.
 

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In any situation where someone is committed to a violent act, yes, shooting any potential threat to them is a valid idea. Why I am not a fan of OC in general urban areas. It can certainly deter the petty thug but the committed maniac, uh no. You just get hammered first.
This ^ exactly...OC might change a few "would be robbers" minds, but I wouldn't count on it..a deep thought process is not usually their strong point...
 

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I'm your huckleberry....
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I would carry concealed even if I was allowed to open-carry.

Why advertise?

Why put a target on your back?
My feelings, also. I like the fact no one knows I am armed. 1) No target on my back; 2) element of surprise; 3) no "do something! You've got a gun!" by some person who sees my OC weapon. I just don't like to advertise.
 

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I was registering an exhibit for the Ravalli County Fair today and one of the Montana Highway Patrol asked me an interesting question about how I felt CCW v OC was a deterrent to crime and threats to life.

He followed up with a rhetorical situation:

"Your in line at a bank and some bad guys come in with the intent to rob the place and they are waving handguns and a shotgun around as a threat".

Then he asked me: "Do you think the Open Carry person is going to be as safe as the CCW because the bad guys can see he's armed and they take him out as a potential threat"?

I really didn't have an answer so I'm asking here:

If the bad guy(s) see that you are armed, does that make you an instant target in a situation like above?

Me? I'm still thinking about if.

FWIW: I have a CCW that I only 'technically' use when I am walking/hiking inside cities limits from fishing spot to fishing spot.

Remember that I own my Glock 20 for bear defense --- and NO! I don't want to open the "Bear" question here .... or again. This is about CCW and OC.
More banks are robbed with notes than with guns

I started out as a strong advocate for open carry and I still absolutely support the Citizen's right to make their own decision in the matter. It should be the Citizen's choice not the State's.

Having said that, I have not open carried off the clock in probably 10 years and I would probably go without a gun before I open carry now.

In my experience open carry is only a deterrent in the sense that locks keep honest people honest. If somebody really wants to attack you that gun isn't going to stop them.

Now it's my turn to make an Appeal to Authority. While open carrying, in uniform I've had one person threaten to knock me on my ass and take my gun. I've had one person DARE me to shoot him. I had two people try to rob me. (although in that particular case it was dark and they may not have realized I had a gun until it came out.) And I had one guy try to back me into a corner and snatch my gun in a Kum & Go at about 3AM one night.

So those experiences inform my opinion. I think open carry is a bad tactical idea. I personally wouldn't open carry (at all if the choice was mine) without a level 2 retention holster AT A MINIMUM and probably intermediate weaponry such as OC spray or an ASP.

I also think that as more people choose to open carry you're going to see more gun grabs and more attempted gun grabs ESPECIALLY if some of these idiot open carriers persist in walking around with unloaded weapons in these cheap ass $5 Uncle Mike's holsters with ZERO retention.

Having said all that I would not restrict anyone's right to make that decision for themselves and when I see somebody open carrying in public I ignore it and hope they do me the same courtesy.
 
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