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Tacticalforums.com trashing Glock .40's!!!

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Musicman7770, Apr 28, 2003.

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  1. Musicman7770

    Musicman7770 Junior member

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    Has anyone been to this site?The moderator 'DocGKR' makes it seem like G.40's are junk. Says the G 9mm's are more reliable.He also makes it seem like kabooms only happen in G .40's.He says we should stick to steel frames.If all this is true,than why is the .40 one of the most (if not the most) popular calibers in law enforcement?And,why is the Glock being used in 65% of all police departments?Not to mention,the FBI and DEA using G .40's!! Help!! I need some reassurance. :( (P.S.-On the site, the 'terminal effects' forum,posts in question are:'The .40 s&w...not needed or fills a niche? 4-19-03' and 'Which .40 cal. to buy? 4-8-03'.
     
  2. Grey Wolf

    Grey Wolf SHEEP DOG

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    Dude,

    My duty weapon and back up gun are .40 S&W... not Glock(not by choice) but still a good round with proper ammo.

    As for Glocks KB'ing this is an old myth that is non-existent when folks do not shoot lead or "hot" ammo. Glocks .40's like others are safe as long as the operator knows what they are doing.
     

  3. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

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    Musicman,

    Folks have been trashing Glocks since 1986, but over 70% of all L.E. agencies, including the FBI, use Glocks, mostly 40's. My advice: Don't get into a peeing match with skunks because there is no way you can win.

    Fact: The .40 is an extremely high pressure round with little or no margin for error when reloading. If you reload, do not try to duplicate factory velocities with used brass. Bullet setback from repeatedly loading the same round--even factory ammo--can also cause a pressure spike. Glock barrels are designed to enhance the performance of jacketed bullets, so do not use lead bullets in a fatory barrel.
     
  4. SGT109FA

    SGT109FA Eat this Osama

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    Dude let this fool rant and rave. Glock.40 people know the real deal! This guy is not worth the time of day and needs to do ALOT more research before he opens his pie hole!;)
     
  5. FORTY

    FORTY Millennium Member

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    I'll alert the media. ;Q
     
  6. Eagles1181

    Eagles1181 Flying High

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    If he thinks they are trash that is fine by me. That means that the demand will be a little lower consiquently by law of supply and demand the price should go down a little.;)

    On a serious note I really don't care what this guy decides to carry. Provided he never points it at me or my family/friends it is a non-issue for me. There are 1000s of guns out there so everybody can have what they like. I like plastic, he likes steel.

    Eagle
     
  7. FLM

    FLM

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    Doc Roberts is hardly a fool and his site is a must for serious shooters. He doesn't like Glocks, but that doesn't make him the enemy. I do like Glocks and carry one. We're both entitled to our opinions.
     
  8. JNB01

    JNB01

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    FLM speaks the truth, Doc Roberts is very knowledgable in the areas of firearms and ballistics. Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers and several other highly respected pistol smith's and professionals dislike the larger caliber Glocks.

    Most state however that the Glock 9mm models are excellent pistols. Alot of Doc's comments centered around the larger caliber pistols going past the 50,000rd. mark, in addition to standing up to shooting roughly 25,000rds. per year ala the MEUSOC. But, that seems highly unlikely for most civilian shooters, and definitely LE. Also, if one can afford that much ammo, one can surely afford a new Glock.

    He did however state that if he had to take a pistol into harms way in a no nonsense rough combat situation, it would either be a well tuned 1911 or a G-17. So no, he doesn't hate Glocks in particular, rather he feels the .40's and .45's have higher breakage rates and durability issues.

    Best, JNB01
     
  9. Carlitos

    Carlitos

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    DannyR wrote: "Fact: The .40 is an extremely high pressure round with little or no margin for error when reloading. If you reload, do not try to duplicate factory velocities with used brass. Bullet setback from repeatedly loading the same round--even factory ammo--can also cause a pressure spike." Amen! DannyR gets it right; the KBs everyone talks about are generally due to 3 mistakes: 1)overcharging/double charging when reloading 2)repeated commercial reloading of the same brass - often used in the .40 Glocks somewhat more generous (read: more reliable) chamber causing an eventual head seperation or 3) Bullet setback.

    So why don't we hear about the same number of KBs from 9 and .45 if simple bullet setback is causing the problem?? Keep in mind that the .40 was invented in the early 90s and optimized to run at absolute peak performance in modern autopistols - unlike the .45 and 9mm which were designed around the turn of the century and run at more reasonable pressure (I am talking about standard SAAMI 9mm - not SAAMI +p or the +P+ which just means its beyond SAAMI's limits). If you work for SAAMI and set pressure limits for standard pressure ammo, you had better take into account every model of pistol made int he last 100 years for 9mm and .45 because somebody somewhere is going to load ammo that you labled "safe" into an old old gun (like the blowback Astra 600 9mm) and expect the ammo to shoot safely. If you are setting limits for the .40, there are NO guns out there made prior to the early 1990s to worry about, so pressure limits can be set higher. Higher pressures make the consequences of a bullet set-back more severe.

    As to larger Glocks (particularly the .40) and high round counts, lets be honest and admit that with the very early .40s (that was a generation ago for crisake!) the heavier recoiling .40 sometime caused parts to break by the 30 to 40 thousand round point. The early guns were re-designs of the original 9mm guns - again that the first generation .40s. Well, that was then. Early parts breakage at high round counts was caused by normal R&D of an excellent design.

    The current .40s? Please - the facts speak for themselves. Do you think the FOP likes the idea of officers carrying an Austrian made gun? Glocks are the most popular police pistols because they are the best guns for general police work today, period. Don't give me that crap about "if we only took the extra time to train every police officer on 1911s and then issue everybody expensive single stacks and then made them practice enough so all police could shoot well . . . " Its not going to happen, nor should it. Departments have budgets - that is the reality, and 1911 training is not in the budget. Its fine for the LAPD swat team - all they do is practice most days. Duty officers? You cannot expect the same from them. I love the 1911s I own and I shoot them in competition because they have a better competition trigger than I can get from my competition Glocks right now. However, when I depend on a concealed handgun to protect my life, it is a Glock.
     
  10. U1121

    U1121

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    I agree with DannyR. There must be something in favor of the GLOCK .40, considering the popularity they have in the LE/Govt. community.

    As far as trashing goes.... a couple of old sayings come to mind:
    "Opinions are like ---holes, everybody's got one." and "The more you stir it, the more it stinks." (To which my Dad would add... "and if you're not careful you'll get some on you.")
    ;)
    U1121
     
  11. cadet

    cadet southpaw

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    "if you dont have anything nice to say, shut the hell up"
     
  12. Duck of Death

    Duck of Death

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    *QUOTE*
    and 9mm which were designed around the turn of the century and run at more reasonable pressure

    9MM--35,000 PSI/SAAMI
    40SW--35,000 PSI/SAAMI
    10MM--37,000 PSI/SAAMI

    From the Speer Rreloading manual Number 12.

    Reasonable--???

    Hmmmm--???
     
  13. Terminator

    Terminator

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    Something ive noticed in reading the tactical forums is that when one of the "big guys", Doc included, says something, its expected that you agree and forget about questioning why. I,by my very nature have to have proof of what you say in some sort of verifiable form. I have seen people ask simple questions from the honest standpoint of not knowing and they are in turn berrated and belittled for asking, so i have to conclude those guys are arses for behaving that way. Im sure that they were born with the infinite knowledge that they feel they have. I was under the impression that there is only 1 omniscient being, and I dont think they are it. Tim has even gone so far as to threaten to ban peeps from the forum for offering their opinion.


    PFFFT!
     
  14. Snowman92D

    Snowman92D

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    You noticed that too, huh...?
     
  15. FLM

    FLM

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    I've never noticed anyone being berrated(sic) for asking an honest question. Doc doesn't suffer fools gladly and if you make dogmatic statements that you can't back up, you might get a curt answer. It's interesting to note that Evan Marshal's son recently posted there and was treated with courtesy.
     
  16. McMurray .40

    McMurray .40

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    The reason the .40 is so popular in the LEO community is plain and simple, stoping the threat. The .40 does that better than any other caliber. yes its even more effective than the .45 sorry G30 boys its true. do some research on police shootings the calibers used and the result of the shooting. numbers dont lie.
     
  17. cheygriz

    cheygriz Venerable Elder

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    Many dionosaurs, like this guy, and Cooper and some of the other old timers can't seem to accept the fact that polymer frames are as good, or better, than steel frames. Ignore them!
     
  18. BZ422

    BZ422

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    I've noticed that they seem to have somewhat of an attitude over there when someone questions statements. I was just wondering though, I'm familiar with Pat Rogers, however I've never heard of Doc Roberts before the past few weeks. Can anyone tell me who he is and all?
     
  19. Pred8tory

    Pred8tory Retired Copper Lifetime Member

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    Of course gunsmiths hate Glocks. They can't overcharge you for working on one. The Glock does not require gunsmithing or fitting. If you read that original thread they are actually recommending 1911's and Browning High Powers. Oh yeah, you need to send them to a gunsmith for throating and more to make them work reliably... CHA-CHING!!!
     
  20. dano1427

    dano1427

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    TF.com can have a sour attitide towards those who the core membership do not immediately accept. I occassionaly head over there, but generally don't like the pervasive attitudes.

    Isn't Doc a dentist who tests bullets on the side?

    Regardless, TF came about through a small group of individuals who didn't like the treatment and controversy from another large Web based board, and they started their own. It's a soap-opera like back story...

    --dan