Tactical reload versus speed reload

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by theTactician, Jul 7, 2007.

  1. saki1611

    saki1611 BOG's #1611

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    mostly owning a gun is for the purpose of self defense, being ready for possible threats. as we always say, "better have it when you don't need it, rather than you don't have it when you don't need it." the same factors when owning a gun, after owning a gun we need to know when and how to use it. hitting the targets is the utmost necessity when it comes to firearm, it's the goal. yet the question now is do we need speed re-load and tactical re-load? my opinion then, both have to be practiced whether for match purposes or self-defense purposes. it's better that i have it when i don't need it, rather than i don't have it when i need it... :thumbsup:

    how i wish that we can choose the number/s of the perpetrators when we engage such. otherwise what's the use of hi-cap guns, even a single stock if i can always choose the number of my enemies according to the number of my carry ammos. i would always choose a man versus man fight then, with a single ammo on my chamber.i don't need to reload...:supergrin:
     
  2. revo

    revo

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    Let's see now.

    Why are we anticipating engaging in real life combat ?

    First, except for saki and jerrytrini, most of us are untrained for force-on-force engagements.

    Secondly, to engage in a gunfight without formal LEO or military training, a person becomes a danger to himself and others. Sorry, IPSC/IDPA competition, though not completely uselss, is not LEO or military training. It's just a shooting sport. And that's it.

    Thirdly, a pistol for civilians is a purely defensive weapon to create space to get OUT of there safely and not to use to engage in running gunbattles with perps. Your job is to keep yourself alive by avoiding a fight primarily or if unable to avoid engagement, just use enough rounds to stop the threat - unlike IPSC/IDPA where you try to shoot as many rounds downrange as possible in the shortest period of time.

    Does this make sense ?
     

  3. HEAVY

    HEAVY "Verify!"

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    personally, i think not practicing reloads (of any kind) because we are confident we'll never need to do it in an actual shootout (stats say a very high percentage of gunfights are concluded in 5 or less rounds, i think), maybe a little naive if not a little foolish.

    i mean no disrespect, this is just a strong personal conviction and opinion.

    and like navels...
     
  4. Poodle

    Poodle

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    I agree that we should leave force on force engagements to LEO's. The weapon is for defensive purposes (when I am left with no choice) hopefully giving me a chance to stop the threat or to flee to safety.

    While it is true that some LEO's have specialized training (like SWAT members) and are immersed in situations approximating real gunfights, it is true also that there are LEO's who practice the way we civilians practice, i.e., IDPA and IPSC aside from their regular training. I've seen many LEO's who are very proficient in the use of firearms.

    But we should concede that there are many LEO's here in the Philippines who hardly practice. This was sadly admitted by a police general friend (whose name I will not mention). I was in the range one time when a policeman tried to shoot a steel popper from 15 meters. He used up all 15 rounds without hitting the target. I hope that they would send somebody else to help me in case I need the assistance of the police. Anyway, I think I can more or less gauge the weapons proficiency of a LEO just by looking at the holster and mag pouches that he uses and the state of his firearm (if it is clean).

    I think that most civilian - civilian encounters involve no necessitiy of mag changes but this notwithstanding, I would practice speed and tactical reloads. If I'm alone, I will use speed reloads but if I have someone covering me and the engagement is extended, I would use tactical reloads.
     
  5. Poodle

    Poodle

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    What about "shooting on the move"? Do you think it's necessary. I can never hit anything if I am moving relatively fast.
     
  6. Allegra

    Allegra

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    Agree except that I would bet on an IPSC shooter vs 98% cops or military :)
     
  7. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter

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    fafa A: di ba walang tatalo sa "sayonachi style" natin???

    :supergrin: :banana: :animlol:
     
  8. JBJ16

    JBJ16

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    Situational awareness and professional "wits" or gulang sa labanan at araw-araw na buhay. These are the LEO/Mil. weapons 90% of the time, only 10% is actual weaponry and skills.

    Most IPSC/IDPA shooters come from so called well-to-do and comfy lifestyles, not usually engaged it the nitty-gritty of street/jungle life; ergo, combat "wits" not practiced on a regular basis.

    So IMO when SHTF comes, LEO/Mil shooters hands down!:thumbsup:
     
  9. Allegra

    Allegra

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    Where did yu get these facts may I ask?
    Kasi I get a lot of requests for training or supervising training for LEOs and I trained my city's swat team
    My opinion is based on what I observe lang
    ( tip - dont mess around w/ the PSG! )

    Rich and comfy lifestyle? Dun mga ako takot
    Spoiled warfreaks whoknow how to shoot
     
  10. charlie-xray

    charlie-xray Gunpowder Adik

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    My take on this, 1st hand from an Army friend.

    Nobody could beat or would have a very hard time beating the PNP in Pistol/Semi-Auto.

    Nobody could beat or would have a very hard time beating the Military in Long arms.

    Now special forces, swat, delta or scout rangers are a totally different story.

    A target that's shooting back at you is a totally different ballgame.

    I remember this friend of mine telling me that, you should not be that afraid if somebody is shooting at you constantly (layman's term sunod-sunod ang putok) you should be more afraid of the who's aiming and watching every round that goes off (layman's term pa-isa isa ang putok or sniping).



     
  11. Allegra

    Allegra

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    ayoko na ng sayonachi

    Na overtrain yata ako for the subic triathlon may chemical imbalance , kaya parati mainitin ulo
    grrrrrrr....
    :)
     
  12. jcaraker

    jcaraker

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    Just curious as to why the large frame pistol is such a booger to tacload while the compact is so much easier. I run a G22 and a G17, and have no exp with the G21/20

    Just like weapon mounted flashlights and lasers, reloading techniques all have their place. Deciding where and which to use is the biggest challenge. I can't honestly put one above the other in a general discussion.
     
  13. theTactician

    theTactician

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    It is a fact that us civilians are not constantly engaged in real life combat situations but we have guns simply because we know that we have the right to defend ourselves and in so doing, in our subconscious minds, we entertain the fact that "it" can happen to us. Like they say, we should always be vigilant, never lax wherever we go, may it be in our very own homes, in our garage, in the parking lot, ...there is always that possiblity of getting that threat to our very lives and by practicing, training ourselves tactically, we get prepared for anything. while it is also true that nothing can prepare us for the real thing, it is always beneficial to attend shooting competitions and constantly train "tactically" in order to give us a better chance of surviving a real gunfight than the other guy. right?
     
  14. Poodle

    Poodle

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    I have a G19 and a G21. I usually don't have difficulty doing tac loads on the G19 because the magazine is not that wide and I can manage to grip two mags at once. Also, the weight of a fully loaded G19 mag is not that substantial. It is also easier to slam it inside the magwell, the compressed mag springs (fully loaded) do not offer that much resistance.

    Now the magazine of a G21 is a lot wider and heavier. It is more difficult to grip two mags at once and a lot harder to slam it in the magwell because the mag springs offer a lot of resistance. There are times during competition when my magazines would just drop off because I was not able to slam it with enough force (I thought that the mag was already locked) during tac reloads. A guy with really big hands would probably not have difficulty.
     
  15. jcaraker

    jcaraker

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    Poodle,
    Thanks for the breakdown.
     
  16. saki1611

    saki1611 BOG's #1611

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    :thumbsup: i agree! you may out shoot cops in IPSC/IDPA matches but you can't out wit them, magulang kasi!:tongueout: :animlol:
     
  17. isuzu

    isuzu

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    IPSC can help in actual scenarios, but tactical or combat shooting is totally different. An example is that in IPSC, when we enter a room, we usually stand inside a "box" when we open the door. If the perp is waiting for you, he or she will just aim at the door and start shooting once the door opens. In combat shooting, once you open the door and enter a room, you should stay away from the door as quickly as possible and probably find a cover or engage targets.

    There was an IPSC shooter who drove his jeepney part time, usually on Sundays, which is usually payroll day for farm workers. He lived in a mountainous town south of Bacolod and his jeepney was held up by three former CAFGUS turned holduppers, one of which was armed with an M16. They waited for the jeepney negotiate an uphill curve, and they were positioned in an elevated area. The perps fired warning shots when the jeep approached the area in an apparent attempt to stop the vehicle. He was armed with a FEG pistol loaded with Hydra Shoks. He went down the jeep and shot the perp holding the M16. The distance was about 15 meters. His first shot dropped the perp and his two companions ran away. He had the presence of mind and assessed the situation well. That made him survive the situation.
     
  18. isuzu

    isuzu

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    In my previous post months ago, I told of a son of a sugar farmer in the suburbs of Cadiz City who fought more than 30 NPAs who entered their compound in an attempt to kill him and his deaf-mute sister. According to the locals, they saw at least 5 dead rebels being carried away when they decided it was too risky to prolong the firefight.

    He was armed with an M1 Carbine with two long mags and a small bag of loose ammo. His sister reloaded for him (inspite of being hit in the butt). An electric fence also helped them.

    He was kind enough not to shoot a young rebel (he said the kid was just about 13 years old); he just shot the ground in front of the kid and the kid ran away.

    He was suffering from PTSD for a long time.

    Again, presence of mind played a big role in this gentleman's survival.
     
  19. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter

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    as i've said over and over again, when owning a firearm for sd purposes, you must take the time to be proficient with it through constant practice!

    and one such effective way to master your firearm is to try out shooting competitions. be it ipsc or idpa, merong role ang competition in your training.
     
  20. HEAVY

    HEAVY "Verify!"

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    i'm no expert but i do own a firearm.

    i would think it sensible (and responsible) to practice with my firearm.

    and that includes reloading!

    'nuff said!

    :)