Summary of gunfights by students of Tom Givens

Discussion in 'GATE Self-Defense Forum' started by jack76590, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. jack76590

    jack76590

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    Mas,

    I recall you mentioning that students of Tom Givens never lost a gunfight IF they were carrying their gun. Linked is a summary of this study of the 65 students of Tom involved in gunfights. The summary states that the three of the 65 students not carrying their guns were killed. I am sure this is true, as far as it goes. But I wonder, if it is possible, that students of Tom beyond the 65 included in the study, were held up, gave up their money and the bad guy left without inflicting physical harm? I can envision this happening and not making the news and certainly can envision students, who were not harmed, also not going and telling Tom they were held up, while not carrying and left physically unharmed. In short Tom never learned of these incidents, where his students were robbed, without any gun play occurring. I certainly hope that things have not come to the point were all robbery of unarmed people end in the victim getting shot. So first can you shed any light on this point? Beyond this I find it amazing that the 63 armed people who put up a fight all won with only a few sustaining fully recoverable injuries.

    I also was surprised that while most gunfights occurred in hours of darkness that artificial light was sufficient to make it light for all practical purposes. The common place of attack in this study was parking lots and while pumping gas. The parking lot was no real surprise, but while pumping gas certainly was a surprise.

    Since the gates forum is for short answers I confine my questions to:

    1. Any knowledge of Tom's students just handing over their money and not being harmed?

    2. Does the experience of Tom's students over the years correspond with those of your students, especially in regard to success/survival rates and locations of attacks?

    Thanks, Jack

     
  2. Mas Ayoob

    Mas Ayoob KoolAidAntidote Moderator

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    1. Excellent question. I will check with Tom and get back to you.

    2. I didn't keep count of mine over the years. Success rate has been the same. One was wounded by a guy who ambushed him on the street and shot him in the leg; when the gunman saw my grad drawing his .357 he fled into a crowd, and my guy didn't shoot for fear of hitting a bystander. I think my folks may have had a higher percentage of home invasion shootings vis-a-vis street incidents.

    Will get back to you when I hear from Tom, whom I'll invite to post here if he's inclined.

    best,
    Mas
     

  3. Mas Ayoob

    Mas Ayoob KoolAidAntidote Moderator

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    Jack, here is Tom Givens' reply:

    "I am on the road teaching, so this will have to be fairly brief.
    First, to the best of my knowledge, one student of mine was robbed at gunpoint while armed and elected not to draw his weapon. He was caught unaware and when he first saw the robber the suspect had a gun pointed at my student. The student elected to comply and the robber took off running as soon as he had the wallet. The student was unharmed, but by sheer luck. His situational awareness sucked. Since neither side fired any shots, this event is not included in our stat’s.

    "I never said my students were pumping gas in a majority of their incidents. I said the majority of the incidents occurred on parking lots. We have had students engaged on the parking lots of gas stations and convenience stores, but also the parking lots of banks, grocery stores, large malls, restaurants, strip shopping centers, and office buildings. They have also been engaged in driveways, garages, front yards, and a few in their homes.

    "Parking lots in this country are not dark, with rare exceptions. Commercial locations, especially, tend to be very well lighted. I have seen my sights better on a convenience store parking lot at 3:00am than on an overcast day at 3:00pm.

    "I hope this helps." -- Tom Givens

    THANKS, TOM!
     
    RichardB and Bruce in WV like this.