Suggestions for a newbie

Discussion in 'Through-the-Lens Club' started by Lew-G17, Dec 9, 2005.

  1. Lew-G17

    Lew-G17

    Messages:
    1,148
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Location:
    Central, NC
    My 13 year old son is taking a photography class at school, currently using Promaster equipment. He is wanting a camera for Christmas and due to having access to lots of cool equipment at school he naturally wants as much as he can get for personal ownership. I have looked at several things on Ebay and see some pretty good deals. What I am looking for are suggestions for a relative beginner. I have personally had good experience with a Canon AE-1 Program camera many years ago and wanted to see if anyone had any opinions regarding that particular camera.

    Sorry for the log post and thanks in advance for your feedback.
     
  2. DTQ

    DTQ c8h10n4o2 me

    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Location:
    a hidden rebel base, with a fridge.
    Film is dead. I don't understand why they are still "teaching" it in schools. My daughter may be taking a class next year at her H.S. and will get any old camera stuff the family has lying around because I will not buy "buggy whips" instead of digital. :soap:
     

  3. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Sláinte !

    Messages:
    1,098
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Film isn't dead, It's just being forgotten/ignored by some.

    The AE1 should be a great learning platform. I learned on a Pentax K1000. I just bought an AE1 from another forum member for my daughter(and for me to get back to doing everything manual).

    New photographers should cut their teeth with film. It is organic. It is chemical. Photoshop is great, but there is nothing cooler than watching your image appear in a bath of chemicals, right before your eyes.

    Enjoy the ride.

    Damn I miss my darkroom...:(


    ;c ;c
     
  4. hatidua

    hatidua

    Messages:
    2,473
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Location:
    right here
    A working knowledge of film really helps when shooting photos, regardless of the capture medium. It's pretty easy to dismiss film as being dead.....just like it is hard for some to distinguish between good and great images.

    In speaking with art directors and editors that I shoot for I've been told that they are still dealing with about 70% film to 30% digital. So, the mom & pop market may be done with film for the most part but the pro segment of the industry is still using a lot of film.

    I don't shoot film anymore but I'm glad I souped countless rolls of E6 and B&W in my past in addition to sloshing endless gallons of Dektol, I think it helps in evaluating a scene before pressing the button/
    mark

    www.markpix.com
     
  5. DTQ

    DTQ c8h10n4o2 me

    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Location:
    a hidden rebel base, with a fridge.
    What are the chances she will turn pro in 5 years? If she does which will be more useful, a five-year working knowledge of PS 9,10 &11 or how Dektol benefits from the addition of bromide? Even if she goes from wet to scans the advantage stops at resolution, why not invest in an H2 and tether for proofing and sign-off over a wet model?
    If she doesn’t turn pro the chances are good she will eventually get a digital camera and at least PSE 3, in which case she will benefit from knowing how to soft-proof and how files benefit from proper color space and format choices.
     
  6. hwyhobo

    hwyhobo

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    I used to work as a photographer many years ago. I spent countless nights in the darkroom. And I want to join DTQ and say, "Film is DEAD." And good riddance. The digital postprocessing offers us so much more control over the finished product, it's not even funny. It's like having regrets that highways are no longer made of dirt because it was so pretty getting stuck in mud.
     
  7. Lew-G17

    Lew-G17

    Messages:
    1,148
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Location:
    Central, NC
    Thanks for all of the feedback.

    We now have a Canon AE-1 Program with an assortment of lenses that I purchased on Ebay for a very resonable price. It shoots great pictures and my son it very happy with it.

    I did ask him about digital and although he does recognize many good aspects of digital he is enjoying working with film for now.
     
  8. hwyhobo

    hwyhobo

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    The unfortunate reason for why they are priced so reasonably is that the FD mount Canon lenses (which you bought) are incompatible with the new Canon digital cameras, so when one day he switches to digital, they will serve him as very pretty paperweights.
     
  9. notx

    notx

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Or, as a backup system.

    Geez. I am sorry, but people, film is alive. Currently I shoot with 2 DSLRs, 2 FILM rangfinders and 1 Holga;c . Alll of them have different advantages.

    So, what lenses did you pick him up?
     
  10. Lew-G17

    Lew-G17

    Messages:
    1,148
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Location:
    Central, NC
    notx,

    We got the camera body plus all below. I have also found him an A2 autowinder. His favorite lens so far is the 28-105

    Canon zoom lens FD 35-70mm 1:35 - 4.5

    Five Star MC auto zoom 1:35 - 4.8 35-75 mm

    Five Star MC auto zoom 1:45 75-200 mm

    Kiron 28-105 F/3.2 - 4.5 macro 1:4 with widerange hood 67 mm w/instructions

    CPC HPS Mc auto zoom/cmacro 1:5.6 f=80-300mm w/Toshiba 58mm SL-1A filter and hood

    Canon speed light 244T flash w/bag

    I also bought, just today, another AE-1 Program with some more lenses because he wants to be able to shoot B&W (which he can develop at school), and color films. This will allow him to do so without unloading and reloading cameras.
     
  11. notx

    notx

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Wow, a lot of overlap there. I would aim at getting him some of the keepers from FD. Starting with a 50mm F1.8 or F1.4. Incredibly good for learning. I would also look towards a portait lens, like a 100 F/2. Great lens.

    Just my thougts... tell him to have fun!
     
  12. hwyhobo

    hwyhobo

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    As a backup to a digital? That means maintaining two completely separate workflows - a significant increase in time, space, and expense.

    Hm. To each his own.
     
  13. nipperwolf

    nipperwolf

    Messages:
    3,403
    Likes Received:
    510
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    ;Q
     
  14. Glock27Girl

    Glock27Girl Glock 23 Owner

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Not to get into the whole "film vs. digital" debate, as both have their places in photography and merits, but personally I find digital more effective for learning.

    I started out in photography with slide film. It was a hard sell for me to get a digital camera, but when I had the opportunity to get a used DSLR for a reasonable price, I bought it "to learn photography better and use the film camera when it counted." Well, honestly, the film camera hardly ever came out after that.

    With digital you get the instant feedback on exposure and composition - still on location and very aware of your settings and techniques, and can make any adjustments you need to in order to correct the problem. With film, you get the results back after the fact and usually don't know what your settings were so it's hard to know where you went wrong (unless you've recorded them or shoot with the F5 and have PhotoSecretary software, etc.).

    The newer DSLR LCDs also provide some great feedback on how effective your flash use is, making it possible for photographers to use flash so effectively and subtly that it almost doesn't appear the subject has been flashed.

    At the same time, digital also requires knowledge of white balance, RAW conversions (unless you prefer to shoot JPEGs or TIFFs, where you get less control should any adjustments need to be made), image editing, and output. The investment is more than the camera equipment - it's the editing software, printer and supplies. So there is more up front learning for the overall process with digital.

    It is a personal choice, each with advantages and disadvantages. Enjoy your new camera gear!
     
  15. notx

    notx

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Yes it is. However, most pros converting to digital also do this... at least for a time. Just like when on a job, you need a backup system. If it is another digital or film of the same type, then fine. If not, then they need a backup, and the other format works.