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Still having trigger issues

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by jeanderson, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. jeanderson

    jeanderson Making America great again! Platinum Member

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    I don't know if this is me or the gun (heard that before have you?). I'm a relatively new shooter and have about 1000 rounds through my G23 now. Did the $.25 trigger job. Replaced standard trigger with smooth trigger because my finger was getting a little sore.

    As I'm pulling the trigger, I notice the tension gets notably heavier about 1/2 the way through the pull. The break happens about 3/4 the way through the pull. The problem is that when I get halfway on the trigger pull, my sights tend to go low/left as I'm pulling harder. The result, of course, is my shots end up low/left.

    Is this normal for a Glock trigger? Do I just need to learn better trigger control here, or should I consider the lighter trigger? Everything I read says I need to learn an even pull on the trigger, but I'm having a hard time because the resistance changes.
     
  2. skyboss_4evr

    skyboss_4evr

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    Trigger control and train yourself to utilize the trigger reset. User Butch has an excellent write-up that covers this very thing!

    Search his username and check it out!
     

  3. stolenphot0

    stolenphot0 RTF2 Addict

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    Learn trigger control before you lighten it up. What you are describing is normal Glock trigger. Take a class or get some private instruction time to help you improve. You say you have 1000 rounds through it, that is some expensive practice to reinforce improper trigger control.

    Also what grip are you using? Your support hand is there to stabilize.
     
  4. jeanderson

    jeanderson Making America great again! Platinum Member

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    I put on Talon grips which seems to help a lot. I did take a shooting lesson and learned to use grip strength of 40% with right hand / 60% with left. That helped me with staying on target - right up until the time I pull the trigger :whistling:.

    Sounds like I really need to do some serious dry fire exercise here and just get used to the Glock trigger.
     
  5. LuckyG

    LuckyG

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    Yep...yep...yep. We run a very large NRA Basic & PP course program at our LGC. Routinely, we see a lot of "experienced" shooters with lousy fundamentals. They have reinforced bad technique for years or decades.

    We are unusual in that every student has an individual coach. This allows rapid progress, even when we have to undo a lot of bad stuff first. The "experienced" students are truly amazed with their improvements and kinda kick themselves in the butt for having waited so long.

    Take a good course...period. If it's an NRA Basic Pistol course (or any other) make sure there is a good amount of range time. Unlike our well staffed club program, some individual NRA instructors with no staff offer only minimum live fire.

    Finally, shooters aren't going to become more proficient with remote control instructions and opinions on Internet forums. You gotta invest the time and money in some hands on training. Sorry - fact of life.
     
  6. jlprtr

    jlprtr CLM

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    That article is here: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/blog.php?b=4
     
  7. Dexters

    Dexters

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    I don't think it is the gun or the trigger. I would look into your grip and trigger pull technique.

    "sights tend to go low/left as I'm pulling harder" - are you right or left handed?

    And, it does not have to be a trigger issue - As you are pulling the trigger you could be adding more pressure/tensing to your fingers/thumb and pushing the gun off target.

    http://blog.hsoi.com/2009/06/15/correcting-handgun-shooting-problems/
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  8. Butch

    Butch RetiredDinosaur Millennium Member CLM

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    And this one too!-> http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/blog.php?b=7

    Heck, read them all! :)


    It's difficult to tell from your description, but it is possible that you damaged a, or some parts when you polished them (it's been done lots of times), but check the above articles to start with and they may give you a better idea as to whether there's something wrong with the gun or not.
     
  9. HK Dan

    HK Dan

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    A couple of things:

    Yes, professional instruction is a great option and you should avail yourself of it

    You should give it a little more finger on the trigger. The edge of the trigger should be just about at the crease of the last joint. This will help you control the Low/left thing. TO get there, rotate your hand around the grip, don't just move the finger.

    If youre already at the last joint, give it about 1/8th" more finger and try it. I'm skeptical at that point, but it may help.

    Most folks who shoot low left are using too little finger on the trigger, but about 1/3 or them are also milking the grip. That is to say that sa they press the trigger the rest of their fingers tighten on the grip. When the trigger breaks, it goes low left. To cure it,, ease up on the tension that you allow your pinky finger to put on the grip. It should offer none or close to it.\

    Lemme know how it goes! Send me a PM when youve tried these two things would ya?

    Dan
     
  10. Arc Angel

    Arc Angel Deus Vult!

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    Butch's article, 'Trigger Control For Dummies' is excellent. (Well written, too!) This being said, I'm with Dexters. I've tried shooting pistols in, just about, every way known to man. In fact, if the human brain can conceive it, and a pistol were involved then, at sometime in my life, I've tried using that technique. I was onto two-handed grips before even Jeff Cooper was. I was off Weaver and onto Modified Isosceles before the Isosceles stance became popular on the pistol shooting competition circuits. (This is the truth!)

    For many years I worked with a Modified Isosceles stance; and thought I'd discovered the, 'cat's meow' of pistol shooting. I did some very good pistol shooting, too; but always with 1911 or another large frame pistol. I didn't have any noticeable, 'low left' problem until I began to use compact and subcompact frame pistols. It was on the smaller frame pistols a tendency to hit low left began to show up. Yes, I was able to compensate for it; but, my trigger control and sight picture adjustments didn't prove to be, 'perfect' solutions.

    After putting a great deal more thought into the situation I finally concluded that the root of my low left problems had to be in my grip; and, after I began studying D.R. Middlebrooks' unique method of holding a pistol, voila!, the, 'light' finally came on! About 6 months ago I began working with the Middlebrooks' grip technique; and, at the present time, (and with increasing arthritis in my hands) I am shooting ALL pistols as well, or better than, I have ever done before in my entire life. (I'm just not quite as fast as I used to be; but, if I could afford to practice more, I think I could change that.)

    In addition to Butch's excellent advice, I would suggest you approach pistol shooting as: (1) Setting your grip the right way, the same way, and with as much CONTROL OF THE BACKSTRAP as you're able to apply. I've said this many times before on this board:

    MAINTAIN CONTROL OF THE PISTOL'S BACKSTRAP, AND YOU WILL MAINTAIN CONTROL OF THE ENTIRE HANDGUN. LOSE CONTROL OF THE PISTOL'S BACKSTRAP, AND YOU WILL LOSE CONTROL OF THE ENTIRE HANDGUN.

    The best pistol trigger, 'pull' in the world isn't going to help you if you don't have firm control of the pistol's backstrap. The best sight picture in the world isn't going to hit where you're looking at if you don't maintain firm control of the pistol's backstrap.

    (2) Now, follow Butch's sound advice; and learn how to, 'press', 'stroke', or repeatedly, 'tap' your pistol trigger correctly.

    Here you need to recognize that every single pistol fires in a slightly different way. Generally speaking I pull straight back; on some pistols I might add a slight downward direction to my trigger finger's movement. Double-action revolver triggers tend to work best when they're pulled straight through and off your trigger finger's distal joint. Single action (semi-auto) triggers, as well as the numerous light/short-throw semiautomatic triggers that are presently out there, tend to work best when positioned on the center of the finger pad that's in front of the distal joint.

    THE ONLY WAY YOU'RE GOING TO DETERMINE THESE THINGS IS THROUGH A REGULAR COMBINATION OF, BOTH, LIVE AND DRY FIRE PRACTICE. (Butch has already told you how!)

    (3) Finally, there's your front sight picture. I'm going to warn that if you pay too much attention to it - While at the same time downplaying (1) proper grip, and (2) knowing trigger, 'pull', then (As you already know ..... ) - your shots are NOT going to hit where you're looking at. The important thing to know about watching your front sight picture is to,

    ALWAYS WATCH THE VERY TOP OF THE FRONT SIGHT.

    If you've got the top of the front sight properly lined up and level, then, the sides of the front sight will, more or less, automatically line up for you. A final sight picture recommendation I'll make is that when you're firing a pistol very quickly do NOT attempt to, 'nest' that front sight.

    TAKE A LOW HOLD ON THE TARGET, INSTEAD!

    So again, it's (1) Grip, (2) trigger, 'pull', and (3) sight picture. NOTE: I could have listed, 'front sight picture' as the #2 item; but, because grip and trigger, 'pull' work together, I've decided to list front sight picture as the last part of this three step process for skillfully handling a pistol.

    http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9513/1rapid16yardtargetcq6.jpg

    (16 yards just as fast as my G-21 would go, 'Bang!')
     
  11. stolenphot0

    stolenphot0 RTF2 Addict

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    Just to add, and it may be covered in Butch's lessons (its been a while since I have read those) but get yourself some snap caps and have someone watch you shoot. Load snap caps randomly and see if they catch you jerking or anticipating the bang. There have been a few times, even shooting live rounds that I catch myself doing just that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  12. glockenturm

    glockenturm

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    The gun has a 5.5lb trigger. Put your index finger on a scale and push til you reach the 5.5lb mark. It's not much. Alot of people, including me, sometimes crush the trigger.

    Place the center of your fingerprint over the center of the trigger. Like you already said, pull smoothly straight back. Don't stop or pull harder. When you are at the end of the travel, your finger from tip to knuckle should be at 90 degrees to the frame. Also use your left thumb along frame to hold it straight.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Message sent from Texas!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  13. jeanderson

    jeanderson Making America great again! Platinum Member

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    Thanks to all for your excellent advice, and for the links to Butch's articles. I now realize what a complete novice I am at trigger control. Just yesterday I was dry firing and the gun was really moving low/left as I pull the trigger. I can't seem to stop it and it's really aggravating.

    The more I shoot, the more it seems like golf - having to remember things like keep your head down, keep the left arm straight, shift your weight, keep your eye on the ball, etc. The problem is doing all of these things at the same time. If you concentrate on one, you forget the others.

    I stink at golf and am starting to feel the same frustration holding my gun as I do when holding a 5-iron. But I will give this a try. Thanks again to all in the GlockTalk community for your pointers here.
     
  14. SouthpawG26

    SouthpawG26

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    Bad sight picture= off by a few inches.

    Bad trigger control= off by a foot.
     
  15. Duck of Death

    Duck of Death

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  16. SouthpawG26

    SouthpawG26

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    Do you really want a new shooter to start using a 2lb trigger pull to circumvent the learning curve?
     
  17. Duck of Death

    Duck of Death

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  18. Dexters

    Dexters

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    This ranks up there with some of the worst advise I've read recently about guns and shooting.
     
  19. Duck of Death

    Duck of Death

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  20. Dexters

    Dexters

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    Not that.

    It is difficult for me to do that much stupid.