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St Louis Gunman - "Assault Weapon"

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by redbaron007, Jan 7, 2010.

  1. redbaron007

    redbaron007 Some Dude Lifetime Member

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    Here goes the media again claiming the "assault rifle" when they are not sure what kind of gun it is; they indicate in the story later it was a 'semi-automatic' rifle.

    The gun control freaks will be out in force now, especially after Las Vegas.

    Here's the link:
    http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...E1C6CB13C3E8A1B5862576A4004833B8?OpenDocument

    By Kim Bell
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH​
    01/07/2010

    UPDATED, 8:40 a.m. Thursday

    ST. LOUIS -- A gunman armed with an assault rifle stormed a power company this morning in north St. Louis, shooting at least three people. At least one shooting victim is presumed dead. Some employees at the business ran to the rooftop to escape the gunfire. At least one man barricaded himself in a maintenance room.

    The shots erupted at 6:30 a.m. at ABB Power, at 4350 Semple Avenue. The gunman was apparently still in the building as of 8:30 a.m. A company supervisor told police that the gunman was a disgruntled worker who may have recently lost his job.

    Police and ambulances were coodinating efforts at a staging area at Bircher and Semple. SWAT team members were called out. Details provided by police spokeswoman Schron Jackson were sketchy. But conversations between dispatchers and police on the scene paint a horrific scene -- where bleeding victims are hiding, afraid to come out, and commanding officers early on were even getting conflicting reports about the race of the elusive gunman.

    About 6:30 a.m. today, police got a call from a woman, very upset, who said that someone came in to the east side of the building and started shooting. "They are still shooting," a dispatcher told police officers rushing to the scene at 6:34 a.m.

    The scene was so chaotic that even the descriptions of the gunman were confusing to police. At first, a witness described the gunman only as a black man, about 5-foot-8 or 5-foot-9, wearing a tan coat and carrying a semiautomatic weapon. Later, a company supervisor called police to give the name of a disgruntled worker who had possibly been recently fired. That worker was a white man.

    Another employee on the phone with police said multiple shots were being fired at the east annex of the building. One man was shot in the leg at the east annex.

    One caller and other employees were on the roof while talking to police.

    "The subject is now outside still shooting," a dispatcher said.

    Minutes later, police were tracking a black SUV with its headlights off heading east from Semple and Bircher. But the conversation on the police radio was somewhat chaotic. A police supervisor was trying to determine whether the SUV was connected in some way, or if shots were still being fired inside the building.

    At 6:45 a.m., that was soon cleared up though when an employee on a rear lot told police over the phone that he was looking at the gunman right then, and that the gunman was still shooting.

    Police were told he carried a handgun, a rifle and an ammunition belt.

    Ambulances were on their way, but police warned it was a "hot zone" because the shooter hadn't been captured yet.

    At 7:15 a.m., one victim hiding in a supervisor's office at the plant called police to say he had been shot in the stomach, leg and arm and was afraid to come out because he didn't know where the gunman was. He said he was with another shooting victim, a man who was neither conscious nor breathing.

    The plant on Semple has about 200 employees and annual revenue exceeding $50 million, according to a company profile. It makes transformers for ABB, an international power company. A company spokesman could not immediately be reached to comment. Employees were being escorted by police onto a Metro bus but weren't being allowed to leave the scene.

    About 7:35 a.m., the employees on the roof called police and wanted to know if it was safe to come down. No, was the reply from a police supervisor at the scene. She said she wanted to make sure they came down the same stairwell that police were in so the employees wouldn't accidentally take another route out and run into the gunman.

    Two 7:45 a.m., two employees called police to tell them that they were hiding out in a room accessible only by ladders and said it was so loud they wouldn't be able to hear officers coming to help them. Those employees were texting family members to let them know they were unhurt.



    This is a breaking story. Check back to STLtoday.com for updates.


    kbell@post-dispatch.com 314-340-8359
     
  2. Isaiah1412

    Isaiah1412

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    Semi-auto != assault rifle you dip***ts!
     

  3. Solesurvivor

    Solesurvivor

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    Now Fox states it "could" be an AK.
     
  4. loki993

    loki993

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    Yes I saw on Fox News that said AK47, dont know how they found that out though. I think in gun terms an AK47 is the same as a pit bull for dogs, ie every shooting is with an AK47 just as every dog attack is from a pit bull.
     
  5. javelinadave

    javelinadave Hebrew Hammer

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    Why does this surprise you. People use the term "Assault Rifle" on THIS board all the time. Even sadder is that most of the time the are not n00bies!
     
  6. Solesurvivor

    Solesurvivor

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    It's never the High Point Carbine. (Just felt like saying that, has nothing to do with anything). :dunno:
     
  7. humanguerrilla

    humanguerrilla

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    Awful stuff and worse that he is a hunter/outdoorsman with a semi auto rifle posterboy for the Brady camp. He apparently has a few guns with him but all we hear about is that he is "armed with an assault rifle".
     
  8. ranger56528

    ranger56528

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    AK-47 is what they say but I thought Assault rifles were all black guns acording to the anti gun people....Anyway its how the reporters report it....

    Kinda like the...Man killed hits car at 70mph on motorcycle and he wasnt wearing a helmet.AS if that would of saved him.
     
  9. humanguerrilla

    humanguerrilla

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    The High Point was the "assault weapon" at Columbine until it became a gun to target.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  10. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    If he's assaulted folks with it - it's an assault weapon.

    I'd just denounce the actions of the loon and get on with life...

    'Drew
     
  11. Tazisland

    Tazisland ¡Déjeme en paz!

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    The press routinely reports the "bad guys" or "shooters" having assault rifles, so guilt by association. You won't hear "assault rifle" used in describing what SWAT is carrying or in this case the Beretta Cx4s carried by the St. Louis Police. My point is that they demonize the weapon instead of demonizing the act. Don't know about yours, but my weapons don't have a soul.

    May God bless the victims and their families.
     
  12. humanguerrilla

    humanguerrilla

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    In living life though I choose not to be cool with a definition of "assault rifle/weapon" that dumbs down our language and us in its political newspeak or participate in a culture of victims or with those who want it to be. Words are important as our rights and may be as deadly as other misused/abused tools.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  13. Carrys

    Carrys Inquisitive

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    Well, for what it's worth........the AK-47 is an assault rifle is it not?

    I know that "Assault Rifle" and "AK-47" both are used to mean any long gun these days by the media, knot heads that they are. But what if it IS an AK? How else would you have them report it?

    Not trying to start a "gun war" for sure, but every now and then they get it correct. Now, that doesn't "excuse" all the other times they make that mistake/intentional blunder, just to promote their own desires. And I'm not defending such actions at all. And I know it's hard to take them seriously when they all seem to state such nonsense.

    But every now and then, just maybe, they're right. You know, the old broken clock thing. Me, I'll wait until they show what he had to make my determination.
     
  14. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    If the guy was walking down the street with a gun minding his own business and they called it an assault weapon, they might be wrong.

    If he assaulted people with it - it's an assault weapon.


    If I found a way to kill 50,000 people + a small city infrastructure with water, and did so 3 or 4 times, that would be considered a weapon of mass destruction. Call me silly.

    'Drew
     
  15. humanguerrilla

    humanguerrilla

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    In a police or criminal justice context as jargon for a "weapon used in an assault" sure no problem. Here though whether we recognize it or not it is being used politically to describe features of the weapon and to simultaneously erase in our culture the firearms and military meanings for a reason. An assault rifle is a selective fire weapon.

    And yes an AK47 is an assault rifle but the semi automatic version of that rifle that is most common here in the states is not. No gun war.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  16. smoke

    smoke

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    If you want to get picky and technical, it cannot be an AK-47 unless it is true full-auto weapon and a very specific version thereof. Semi-auto variants of AK family type ARE NOT AK-47's.
     
  17. WarCry

    WarCry

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    Don't forget, the press HAVE to play to a lower common denominator. They use terms that "experts" would disagree with, but that make sense to the COMMON audience. Like saying "ship" when the size of the craft would make it a "boat" (which, BTW, I don't know if there's a difference, just using that as an example).

    I think they use "assault weapon/rifle" to differentiate it from a hunting weapon/rifle. They also don't tend to report things like what type of handgun may be used, like semi-auto vs revolver. This is especially true in developing situations. "A gunman with a handgun stormed a post office", etc.

    When politicians and the like try to DEFINE weapons, that's a problem to me. But when the press report stories like this, it's not. It's nothing more, really, than a descriptor to show that he wasn't in there with a bolt-action deer rifle.

    To me, in my own opinion, it's much the same as the "clip" vs "magazine" debate. The "experts" will be quick to jump on anyone using the wrong term, while most will know exactly what's being described, even if the wrong term is used.

    In short, the news stories are for my mother who doesn't know an AK from a Remington. The reports are not FOR gun guys.

    Such is life, carry on...
     
  18. thorn137

    thorn137 Walther

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    When the PR officer is giving a quick interview, they are saying "assault weapon". That's why we put that word on TV.

    More often than not, when you hear a reporter say "assault weapon" live on the scene, it's because that's exactly the term that was used by a Govt or Police Official to describe the weapon.

    (And yes, it's probably not a full-auto AK. I know the difference. I also know the difference between a clip and a mag, but again - common vernacular has changed in these descriptions of gun/gun items.)

    thorn
     
  19. humanguerrilla

    humanguerrilla

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    I think this is a much more meaningful thing to jump on, and we should jump on it on our fellow gun owners with more meaning and responsibility than the standard issue flames for "clips".

    Journalists proliferate a biased political definition [assault weapon,assault rifle is AP style] probably without realizing it and so many more do. It takes experts to call them on it otherwise everyone is dumber. And those semi auto Remington's become assault rifles not just to your mom.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  20. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    The problem here is that the overwhelming majority of the populace (at least in the urban clusters) ALREADY think a black long gun with a red dot or scope is an assault rifle. This is what they believe, and know for a fact.

    Your attempts to clear the air are akin to me telling a Jew their higher deity does not exist.

    'Drew