Speznaz...Who Saw It Tonight?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by MO Fugga, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    I saw the documentary on History Channel tonight, and wonder why the majority of our troops are not trained to this level. The program implies Political Correctness. :steamed: I'm sure that many of our elite units ARE trained in this manner, but it seems like a better all-around training regimen for all combat units, even though there is supposedly a higher mortality rate. I was another "dirty ol' leg" (11B), trained at Benning, and we didn't get any of that. What does GT say?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  2. tae

    tae

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    So you think all our troops should be trained at special forces level? :dunno:
     

  3. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    Why not? We are the best in the world...we must FIGHT TO WIN!!! I can think of much better things for the government to spend my tax dollars on. Providing that level of training will shut my mouth on the subject forever. Yes...all combat troops, and then some. As a former Infantryman myself, I would rather die in training trying to become a useful warrior than dying a useless death in a useless conflict over useless people for useless reasons. I think I just got my own thread locked...but I don't give a ****. America being prepared for SHTF is not something I take lightly. I think that in this day and age, we should play every card in the deck that we hold, and that type of combat training is well within budget, if resources are allocated properly. We must lead by example!

    DISCLAIMER... I never said my sorry *** could survive that! We do have real heroes, and I am positive that there are more than a few that are willing to step up to the plate!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  4. security79

    security79 Gene Frenkle

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    Spetsnaz do have a high amount of injuries and deaths during training compared to our own special forces from what I've read just like the french foreign legion. But their training is what makes them some of the, if not THE, finest fighters on earth. Even the regular Russian army boot camp is pure hell. I've always had a fondness for the Russkis though so I may be a bit biased. :supergrin:
     
  5. Surt

    Surt Jötunn-Kin

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    Soldier-to-soldier, without all the fancy equipment advantages, we are not a 1st class army. Far too many of our troops would be useless at night without NVGs, we still wander around, lost even with our GPS systems. The overhead aerial drones have turned into a crutch, as we believe if ISR coverage doesn't show an ambush, we can relax our columns, and cluster up, and even when it does, it takes 15 minutes to get IDF "on target" (if they're still there). Pffffffft, whatever.

    If we could combine the field craft of the Taliban a-holes ambushing a numerically and technologically superior force with AKs, PKs, and RPGs, with the first-rate equipment we have, we would be a nigh-unstoppable force.
     
  6. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    Not exactly tipping my hat to anyone, but what happened to the "almighty" Soviets when they decided to go to Afghanistan? Something about a "Land War In Asia"...
     
  7. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    I lived in Anchorage as a child (age 5-11) and remembering the "earthquake drills" I once heard the teacher mutter under her breath "The Russians are coming...", as she rolled her eyes, and we cowered under our desks...she knew what was up, even if it didn't happen.
     
  8. CitizenOfDreams

    CitizenOfDreams

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    Same thing that happened to British troops between 1839 and 1919. Same thing that is happening to American troops today. Same thing that would happen to anyone who tries to fight a cockroach infestation with a hammer.
     
  9. security79

    security79 Gene Frenkle

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    It's certainly not for lack of willing participants for hardcore training such as theirs. It's the politicians and leadership who only care about political correctness and everything else that has no place in the military. When I joined out of high school I expected an experience that I saw a thousand times in full metal jacket. To my surprise it was nothing like that. Now mind you we do have plenty of fine combat veterans that have been through alot and asked for more. It's just the ones that join to collect the college money or just because the economy is slow that would be the problem in that training enviroment. That female that refused to deploy recently and made the headlines. She is a prime example of the ones you would have to weed out first.
     
  10. Ragnar

    Ragnar

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    1. That training is expensive. You should note that the Russians don't train their Army to Spetznaz levels either.
    2. Its not needed for the ordinary soldier who would never use or need the training. As if the guy in orderly room who hands out leave forms needs to go.
    3. I watch shows like that with a certain amount of "they really do that?" and "are they really effective doing it?". In other words, how much of what you see on a TV show made to get ratings and make money is the real deal?
     
  11. Shagrat

    Shagrat

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    You make good points here. Take the US Marine Corps for instance. The training program is 13 weeks. Britain's Marine Commando's have a 32 week training course. See link below.

    http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/royalmarines/training-fitness/royal-marines-training-course/

    In all likelihood, European forces train their men to be more self sufficient and less dependent on technology, due in part to military philosophy and lower budgeting levels.
     
  12. Glock20 10mm

    Glock20 10mm Use Linux!

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    Can't disagree with this...
     
  13. g34tackdriver

    g34tackdriver

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    I'd still take a MARINE any day of the week. Quality of training, not quantity. Semper Fi
     
  14. slaytera666

    slaytera666

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    :upeyes: Too much Call of Duty for him I guess.
     
  15. Shagrat

    Shagrat

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    Did you check the link(s)? Take a long hard look. They don't just sit around for a few weeks. Take a look at the last test: 30 miles over rough country, with a full battle pack, all in 8 hours. 7 hours for officers.
     
  16. Nestor

    Nestor Lean & Mean

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    I believe that this point may be valid those days.
     
  17. tantrix

    tantrix J'aimeLouisiane

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    Truth is, we need bullet sponges. Add up the total number of soldiers in every branch of the US military and then calculate how many of them could actually make it through SF training (Navy SEALS, Army Rangers). Now from that number, subtract those that couldn't hack it in Special Forces but specialized in a unique role such as jet pilots, Apache pilot/gunners, and tankers. Now, take that huge number you have left and that will be a whole hell of a lot of soldiers with "decent" training...that's the majority of our military. Contrary to what we may have believed as kids, not everyone in the military (I don't care what branch) is a badass. The words "Special Forces" and "Elite" apply to only a handful of guys in our military and they ain't talking on any forums you can believe that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  18. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    We need sharks with freaking lasers attached to their heads.
     
  19. tantrix

    tantrix J'aimeLouisiane

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  20. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    You seem to equate the difference between infantry and special forces with level of training. In reality, it's more about mission. Infantrymen don't have the same need for advanced training in foreign languages, foreign weapons, free-fall parachuting, scuba, advising/training foreign troops, etc. - it's an entirely different mission. If you don't get that, I have to wonder about you being an infantryman.