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Speer9mm 124gr GDHP v. 124gr +P GDHP

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by DocCasualty, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty

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    My GoogleFu must be on the fritz. I'm trying to find some reliable comparisons between the +P and non +P cartridges of Speer's 9mm 124gr GDHP. I know that the +P variety is given the thumbs up on Gary Robert's "approved" list but have no idea how the non +P variety performs in various gelatin tests. I have been having a tough time locating the +P for sale and would like to see how the standard pressure load fares in the same tests, both in short and standard length barrels.
     
  2. BOGE

    BOGE Millennium Member

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    Not much difference.
     

  3. Snowman92D

    Snowman92D

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    Not sure about gell-o testing, but the standard pressure variety has been used very effectively by U.S. Customs personnel on the Mex border for quite some time now. The +P versions would certainly be more of a good thing, but the standard 124-grain load clearly performs well when used well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2010
  4. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Yep, both work well from what I have researched. The +P is slightly preferable in 4" barrels and longer, if you really want to eek out every fps possible.

    This is one of my favorite tests. Not real scientific (water jugs, no precise penetration figures) but it's interesting:

    http://frag.110mb.com/
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2010
  5. Tomac

    Tomac

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  6. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty

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    I appreciate your thoughts guys and it seems the difference is real but not great. Approximately 100fps between the two and both are about 50fps slower out of the 3.5"bbl compared to a 4.75" bbl.

    I finally found a purported list of FBI tests here http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php There are actually two sets of 124gr and 124gr +P GD listed there and the second set shows the 124gr GD also meeting the 12"-18" penetration criteria they set, though the first doesn't. Wonder if these were different points in time with different Gold Dot configurations or just the randomness of testing? Anyway, it seems the differences are pretty neglible with the gel testing too, especially with that second set of numbers.
     
  7. glocknbruce

    glocknbruce

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    Read this months "American Handgunner", The Ayoob Files is abut a CCW'er who put 9 standard pressure gold-dots into a thug..........he died very quickly
     
  8. mastrbloata

    mastrbloata

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    Wow, and it only took 9, eh?
     
  9. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty

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    And that's for LEOs in the line of duty. Haven't read the Ayoob article but I don't think the number of shots fired has much correlation with how many it actually might take in any given shooting.
     
  10. glocknbruce

    glocknbruce

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    well, you gotta' give the bad guy time to fall down!!!!
     
  11. unit1069

    unit1069

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    I really don't see the need to load +P or +P+ ammo for self-defense. I've always thought that if standard pressure ammo isn't sufficient then I'm relying on the wrong caliber.

    I do admit to carrying 124-grain Golden Saber +P in one pistol I have but that's because it has the best shooting characteristics of any round I've yet tried out in that particular pistol, not because of any extra power it might have.

    ATK has a long video where the company test compares their 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP rounds through both calibrated gel and windshields and it's well worth watching. It's convinced me to buy some standard pressure 124-grain Gold Dots when I find them in the 50-round boxes. The numbers between standard pressure and +P are close enough to be practically meaningless. Gold Dots, HST, Tactical Bonded are all included on the video. The video is somewhere here on Glock Talk.
     
  12. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Why not eek the maximum performance possible out of a given caliber? Given two identical bullet weights, if one is 100 fps faster and all other things are equal, wouldn't you go with the faster one? I would.

    The thing about Gold Dot's in particular (the only JHP's in +P that I have experience with) is there is little to no difference in recoil between 124gr and 124gr +P. I'll take the extra velocity.
     
  13. Ajon412

    Ajon412

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    I posted this response a while back on another thread, but I think it's relevant here: :wavey:

    There was a recent NYPD shooting in the Bronx ( Aug 2010) where a perp was shot 23 times with 9mm Speer 124 +P GDHP rounds and survived. Conversely, a Brooklyn copper a few years back shot an killed a perp with (1) round to the chest (same ammo) after the perp attacked the officer with chair. I tend to think shot placement has more to do with it than caliber. Just my .02....
     
  14. mastrbloata

    mastrbloata

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    Wow, and it only took 23, eh?
     
  15. 1smoothredneck

    1smoothredneck

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    +1. Shooter was a musician, and had been well trained by his brother in pistol shooting. I can shoot pretty fast when I'm scared, and I'm NOT a musician. Maybe his skilled fingers are faster than most; Mas gives his take on the number of shots, and it jives with ours. Guy fires fast, stops firing when threat is stopped, and BG absorbs several rounds on the way to the ground.
    I'd like to thank Mr. Ayoob for his work in bringing these articles to us over the years.
    I think I'd still go with the +p, though.:whistling:
     
  16. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty

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    I think the key is finding which ammo within the caliber is sufficient. That's why I was curious to know how the standard pressure version performed. I found some more corroborating data over on m4carbine.net that there is a slight advantage to the +P flavor but the standard 124 gr in its current configuration is not lacking at all. I ordered some of it to try it out. If and when I can get the +P version, I'll probably try that out too and see how they compare in my 9's.
    I'd be interested in seeing it. Anybody got a link? Not only are the numbers between the 124 gr GDs close, there performance appears close as well.
     
  17. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty

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    I think you're correct. I really had no interest in starting another caliber war. Heck, I wasn't planning on engaging in a terminal ballistics discussion either, but at least that could conceivably be linked to my original question.

    I do appreciate everybodys' input.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2010
  18. Glockbuster

    Glockbuster

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    Why not move a little closer to 357 sig performance using the +P load instead of standard pressure ?
     
  19. Ajon412

    Ajon412

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    Try this:

    http://le.atk.com/general/irl/videos.aspx
     
  20. Ajon412

    Ajon412

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    I believe the NYPD are still using Speer 124 +P GDHP and the New Jersey State PD are still using Speer 124 GDHP as duty rounds. Maybe you could do some research on the results of some actual shootings by these agencies. The way I look at it is if it's good enough (street tested) for them, it's good enough for me. Again, just my .02.....:wavey: