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Speer Gold Dot .45 ACP?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Sammael, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. Sammael

    Sammael Ich tu dir Weh.

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    Question:

    Looking at some Speer Gold Dot 200gr +Ps for .45 ACP - Getting a pretty good deal on em, but what I would like to know is this:

    I've done a fair share of reading, and Gold Dots always seem to come in with decent marks on any defensive testing, but does anyone have any in-depth info on them, or use them as their carry/defensive ammo?

    Pros/Cons/Opinions on this round?

    Thanks,
    G7
     
  2. N/Apower

    N/Apower

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    The 200gr+P round is generally frowned upon in this loading.
     

  3. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    There seems to be some evidence that the 200+P's don't expand well sometimes, especially through heavy clothing. But the only photo evidence I've seen was for a 6-petal version but I just bought some and they have 7-petals so it's possible the .45s underwent a revision at some point. Regardless, I don't feel underarmed with 8+1 of ANY .45 ACP.

    I shot some 185gr and 200+Pgr Gold Dots today in an M&P 45c. The kick for both was a bit more than I think I get from 230gr FMJ. I'll probably only use 230gr Gold Dots or Ranger-Ts or HSTs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  4. beforeobamabans

    beforeobamabans FYPM

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    This is the real issue AFAIC. There is a noticeable difference in recoil between the standard loads and +p loads in GD .45acp. I wouldn't carry it simply because there is NO WAY I can be as accurate (especially with f/u shots) with my G30SF.

    Seriously, do your own comparison test by rapid firing a full mag of STD vs +p back to back. Unless you are a very accomplished shooter, immune to the effects of increased recoil, you will be amazed at the difference in your patterns. Always test like this with a box or two before buying a large quantity of defense ammo.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  5. Sammael

    Sammael Ich tu dir Weh.

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    Thanks for the input thus far, fellas.

    I had read that the old 'Flying Ashtray' Speers had some feeding probs, but two things make that matter a bit less to me:

    1. The bullet design has changed since the 'Flying Ashtray' design into what we know today as the Gold Dot bullet.

    2. Most of the feeding problems (that I read about anyway) were with 1911s that had been primarily used for 230gr hardball - in that case, having FTFs with the wide mouth of the 'Flying Ashtray' design makes perfect sense.

    I personally have not had any feeding issues with *anything* I have fed my G21, and more recently, my G30. I *do* plan on carrying them (GD 200gr +P) for defense, as I'm going to be grabbing them from a friend for 25 bucks per box of 50. (I wish I could gind 230gr Gold Dots, or maybe HST or Golden Sabers for that price!)

    My current carry round is the WWB 230gr JHP (relatively cheap, decent performance, relatively easy to acquire). I would think that even with their less than stellar expansion, that the 200gr +p would have to at least be better than the WWB JHPs... or maybe not.

    From what I was able to gather from another thread here on GT about the 200gr +P loading, they expand well - but only if the velocity is pushed past 1000 fps. Under 1000 fps, the results were not as encouraging.

    I am more interested in how they perform after denim, or possibly barriers. Being a bonded bullet, I would think that just about any Gold Dot (200, 230, whatever) would perform better than a traditional JHP like the WWB 230grs... again, I could be incorrect.

    Which is why I am asking the experts. :supergrin:

    Thanks for the input so far...

    Anyone else who has not weighed in yet: What say ye?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  6. degoodman

    degoodman Out of Columbus

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    I have several cases of this load, and consider it my primary load in .45. I've shot alot of the load as delivered from the factory, and using the component bullet loaded to deliver factory equivelant velocities.

    This is a load that gets some criticism for not opening up when shot in the heavy clothing test in the FBI series. I have seen the photos on the internet of the phenomena, so I'm not going to say it never happens. I have shot plenty of that load in my own backyard testing, and I haven't observed it failing at any greater rate than other common defensive loads. And I say that having seen virtually any load that I've shot and recovered enough slugs to have a meaningful number of do something funky.

    Does it recoil more? Yea it does. but its not like a 230 grain load is a sleeper, and the 200 grain +P is some kind of raging bull that's just been hit with a cattle prod in the yam bag. You're also getting something significant for that extra recoil, another 110 FPE give or take, which is a 25% increase over the 230 grain load, and 12 or so % increase over the 185. Whether you buy into a theory that gives alot of value to that energy is for you to decide. But if you think that .357 Sig and 10mm are better than 9mm or .40, you're making that argument pretty much solely on the basis of the former carrying more energy to the target than the latter, and by roughly the same margins.

    I'd get a test sample of 50-100 rounds and see what you think of the round before buying in quantity, unless the price is that good and its not going to last long. I'd make the same advocation for any purchase of a significant quantity of defensive ammo in a load you haven't shot extensively.
     
  7. degoodman

    degoodman Out of Columbus

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    The old Speer "Flying Ashtray" load was a design completely unrelated to the current Speer Gold dot. It was discontinued completely in 2000, and was very difficult to find for at least a few years prior to that. That load is the one that is typically referenced as having a great deal of difficulty expanding at low velocity. below 1000 FPS it just didn't want to open up well, including when shot into media like water and bare gel that usually make even the worst bullet designs bloom into pretty flowers.

    And yes, it fed like garbage into pistols designed for .45 ball, like most 1911's, and also Sigs, the glock .45's and frankly most other pistols that hadn't had the feed ramps cleaned up a little bit to accomodate the whopper of a hole in the end of it.
     
  8. KCabbage

    KCabbage

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  9. gunreviewonmyspace

    gunreviewonmyspace havegunwillgo

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    I bought a box of 165grain just to try them. They functioned fine in my glock, but caught on the feed ramp in my 1911. The mouth was too wide. I have since tried the 180g, and 230g, with no problems.
     
  10. khufford

    khufford

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    I can get .45ACP Gold Dot 180gr and 230gr for $500/case (1000 rounds, LE boxes). PM me if interested... :)
     
  11. beforeobamabans

    beforeobamabans FYPM

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    Since you've already made up your mind.....
     
  12. Sammael

    Sammael Ich tu dir Weh.

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    Plans can be changed... :)

    Just trying to get a general concensus amongst fellow GTers, as the reviews I've seen elsewhere seem to be pretty evenly mixed between those that think this round is an excellent choice, and those that think otherwise.

    I was more looking into how the 200gr GD bullets perform through clothing/barriers when pushed to just over 1000fps. Testing can be biased at times due to circumstance, so I was motivated to find those with real world experience with this round.

    Moreover, with some folks advocating 230gr hardball I would still think the 200gr +P would perform at least adequately... but I have been wrong before. :dunno:
     
  13. degoodman

    degoodman Out of Columbus

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    It's another part number in a good line of ammo. I buy it by the case, for quite a bit less than most can get it for except for LE agencies on letterhead purchases. I get the same deal on any GD load I want, and this is still the one I picked for .45. Take that for what its worth.

    in a 3" 1911, I still get about 1005 FPS. 5" guns get me about 1070. So Speer's stats aren't too far off. I don't shoot holes in clothes every day, but I do kill critters with handguns on the farm. Last one I poked with this load was out of the 3" gun, a coyote at maybe 35 yards. he was facing away from me eyeing a couple of lambs, and I hit him in the hind quarters maybe 10% forward of his rear and the bullet was under his skin just forward of the shoulder. Didn't hit any bones, caught the liver, some intestines, the diaphram the edge of the one lung and the heart with the shot. I didn't measure the bullet, but it was fully expanded, and the liver and heart in particular were pretty ugly. Total wound track was probably 16 - 18". Thing was DRT. I've also shot groundhogs and coons with it, but that doesn't tell you much cause they die fast, and the bullet is never recovered.

    I'll also be honest in that I care less and less about the 4 layer denim test the more time I spend looking at it. I think the test needs updated to reflect reality, which probably means shooting leather, and synthetic materials like fleece and gore-tex as a substitute, but who wears 4 layers of homogenus cloth in a stack next to skin? This is the one test that the 200 gr +P load seems to get its negative rep behind, and its one test that is probably least rooted in the current reality.

    Put one in the boiler room, and I doubt that a BG is going to be thanking you that you took the 200 +P load over the 230.
     
  14. Sammael

    Sammael Ich tu dir Weh.

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    Thanks degoodman!

    Exactly the kind of input I was looking for. Thank you for taking the time to post that... If anyone else has anything more to add, I'm all ears.

    Thanks folks!
     
  15. Ak.Hiker

    Ak.Hiker

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    If you like the Gold Dot 200 grain +P Speer also loads the Lawman line in 200 Grain +P to match up with the Gold Dot line. Over 1000 fps out of a 3 inch is pretty impressive for a 200 grain bullet. This is more power than the 40 S&W and running with the Hornady 200 grain 10mm XTP load. Real Guns has some testing of several 45 ACP +P loads for use in hunting. In wet newsprint it penetrated 14 inches and expanded to .70. They felt it was an excellent all round load.
     
  16. mclaren

    mclaren

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    I carry these in my 5" 1911 with full confidence. I have tested them and they perform exactly as advertised and to my standards. Mine have 7 petals. I have many loads on the shelf to choose from and these are what I go for 9 times out of 10.