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Sorry but 850 fps just doesn't do it for me 135gr or not. My 38 snub nose carry round is the Underwood 125 gr Gold Dot which gets around 1100 fps velocity out of a 2 inch barrel and 1250 fps out of a 4 inch barrel. This video explains.


You actually chrono those loads or accepting the manf data?
 
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13-14" is anything but "deep", in fact it falls short. After decades of putting bullets into living things Ive found that if a cartridge cannot consistently reach 16" it's not up to par. Add in the unnecessary blast & recoil and it's not worth it.

Two to three extra inches of penetration trumps 0.19" of expansion. :unsure:
I tend to agree though I think 14" is acceptable & really should be the FBI min imo.
 

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The fellow doing this test used his chrono to get these velocities. Manf. data?
What does it do in YOUR gun? Revo data is all over the place. Ammo manf put their best data on their ads. Not saying they lie, but in a revo, vel can vary 100fps in the same bbl lengths. So you may not be getting what you think you are.
Btw, was making ref to your UW load as to manf data.
 
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I think out of a short barrel an HST or Sig V Crown would expand more reliably. Underwood gives the rugged Gold Dot bullet the velocity needed to provide reliable expansion.
Its a short bbl GDHP. It doesn't need or want a lot of vel.
 
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Did you watch the video??? Two short barrel GDHPs that "didn't need the velocity" failed to expand. The Underwood regular 125 gr GD 38 round that wasn't short barrel "did expand" with the extra velocity.
I did. The gdsb needs more than was gotten from that revo. Some bullets, the threshold for exp can be 50fps from expanded to not. I’ve loaded that bullet up,& down & no, it isnt reliable once you drop below 950fps. Above 1100, the bullet starts shedding petals & fold them back against the bearing surface. Its one test though, one lot.
 

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How is .45-.60 a "better deal" when it often doesn't penetrate deep enough to hit vital structures as I have found?


Yet 38 LRN and FWC have proven themselves as excellent fight stoppers on the streets for well over half a century. Can anyone point to a vetted long term study that directly compares relevant wounds created by JHP and LRN/FWC/Etc on the streets? Something where all data is provided and can be studied by others.

Further, what is "excessive penetration"?
Multiple decades worth of actual street use has shown that the most commonly used 38 loads tended to be found either just under the skin opposite the entry point, or exit and be found laying harmlessly just beyond the target


I've yet to find any consistent meaningful evidence of such "shearing and cutting" from any "sharp shoulders" with most of the countless JHP bullets I've fired into actual living "flesh & blood". The only place I've seen any such consistency is with FWC and SWC, if they don't tumble you can often find "cookie-cutter" type holes in organs (i've even found a couple of the plugs while processing). Beyond that I've found that the wounds created by typical expanding bullets are more often than not relatively indistinguishable from non-expanding bullets, this using the common handgun service calibers*

The most obvious difference I see is that non-expanding bullets will often hit more structures at depth, especially when fired in trajectories that are more longitudinal through the body. I've seen this in my own "flesh & blood" testing as well as real world shootings of humans, with one particular example being Christopher Wallace.

He was hit 4 times with 9mm FMJ ammunition, all rounds first penetrated through a car before striking him. Three of the bullets struck and traveled through non-vital areas; Lower forearm out wrist, back out shoulder, inner thigh. But the fourth bullet entered his right hip and traversed diagonally through his entire torso before stopping in his upper left shoulder (keep in mind he was a big fella at nearly 400#). Along the way it tore through his colon, liver, heart and lung. The people in the vehicle said he was almost immediately unconscious and the ER found he had already bleed out.

Just say'n ;)



*Oddball cartridges like 5.7x28 do unusual things thus not applicable here
Sort of. The 38sp lrn has NEVER been a good fight stopper. If it was, they would never have moved to lswc then lswchp then jhp.
 
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If it weren't for the over blown Miami shootout 10 to 15 inches penetration would be our standard. Corbon at one time even advertised their JHP ammo to get a penetration depth of 9 to 11 inches! And Corbon had a good street reputation.
Really? What agencies carried corbon?
No just a simple look at anatomy tells anyone 9-11” of penetration is a fail on oblique shot on larger attackers. Not unlike hunting, i want penetration to vitals on any angle for the largest target i expect to shoot. The miami shooting was real world, not jello.
 
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