Some thoughts on the Gen4 Glock19

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by FiremanMike, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

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    I worked up a new load on my reloading bench for my Gen4 Glock 19 (03 spring). Like many, I have cycling issues with softer loads, and the mouse-fart load I had worked up that cycled my M&P9 with almost no recoil just wasn't cutting it. My gun is about 98% with softer 115gr factory loads, and has always been 100% with +P duty ammo. Long story short, I charged my new load to just under the max for titegroup with 115gr FMJ bullets and took them to the range. I have loaded this round before and shot it on an M&P9 and it felt very snappy, never chrono'd it though..

    As I suspected, my gun was 100%, and I was pleasantly surprised at how completely tame the load was in my little g19. Much like a .45, recoil was more of a push than a flip, and as has been my experience with everything I've shot out of my G19, follow up shots were flat and fast. My buddy was on the range with me, he's been on the fence about getting a gen4 because of cycling issues. He was also impressed with the lack of recoil on this particular load (he loads titegroup also), but still said he would pass because "I want something I can feed anything to".

    This statement is not unlike many that I read here on these boards. People poopoo the gun because it won't feed anything like previous generations of Glocks. I'm not of that opinion. I think Glock set out to make a gun that would comfortably and rapidly shoot self-defense/duty ammo, and the 02-03 springs delivered just that.

    So why is it that people desire a gun that will shoot any crappy ass light range load they feed it. Are you using these rounds for self defense? Do you plan on getting into a firefight loaded with 45+1 rounds of 115gr FMJ pushing 1000fps? On the range, who cares if failures happen, no one is shooting back. I want a gun that eats 124gr Bonded +P rangers and spits 'em out as if I was shooting a previous generation with crappy ass light range loads. My Gen4 does just that.

    In short, the Gen4 is designed to be a combat handgun shooting combat loads.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2010
  2. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Because Glocks have never had a problem in the past feeding any and all ammo. Maybe not handloaded mouse fart 115 1000 fps crap but factory ammo yeah (and factory 115ers should run at least 1100+ fps).

    I want a gun that runs 100%, period. My G4 19 has so far. It's not the softest 9 I have though. My Sig 229 is noticeably softer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2010

  3. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

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    The sig 229 is all steel..

    Wouldn't you agree that your Gen4 shoots +P self-defense/duty ammo much softer than the Gen3? That's kinda what I was getting at..
     
  4. glockguerilla

    glockguerilla

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    Love my new Gen4 19. Hundreds of rounds & accurate-reliable. I shoot a lot of Gold Dot 124 +P ...sweet stuff.
     
  5. matt c

    matt c

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    Makes sense to me.
     
  6. G26S239

    G26S239 NRA Patron

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    Actually the standard 229 has an aluminum alloy frame and steel slide, but your point about the relative weights is correct. On my postal scale the 19 w/o magazine is 21.4 ounces and the 9mm P229 is 29 ounces w/o mag inserted. I have noticed that some people w/o gen 4 Glocks like to bag on them, not sure why.
     
  7. ComeAndGetThem

    ComeAndGetThem

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    Great review. Your conclusions seem sound. I own 3 Gen 4 9MMs and have had a few hicups but not with defensive loads. Only when my wife shot them, with Remington Green Box and the anti seize lube still on would it malfunction. My conclusions were that a very slight amount of limp wristing, along with rounds that were going so slow that I could visually see the bullet going downrange and goop on the slide that would drag the slide speed down were enough "factors" to cause a FTF. Either more powerful ammunition, no anti seize lube or me shooting it was enough for the malfunctions to stop.
     
  8. Giggity-Giggity

    Giggity-Giggity Giggity-Goo!!!

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  9. fmfdocglock

    fmfdocglock

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    A semi-auto should be able to feed any number/variety of ammo in its caliber.

    If it doesn't, its of diminshed value and a defective design.
     
  10. ilgunguygt

    ilgunguygt Enslaved in IL

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    Another fanboy gone wild.
     
  11. Taz

    Taz

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    I want a gun that runs 100% or as close as possible with all factory ammo. PERIOD. You may not have the option of buying your favorite pet defense load out in BFE. Loose your ammo for whatever reason while on the road and youre SOL if your gun wont run on whats available at the local Walmart. While I wouldnt choose to carry WWB 115FMJ, I'd much rather carry that than a small club.

    I'm on the fence with the Gen 4's. Love the grip and mag release, but I'd like to see the reliability issues resolved. I find it odd that Glock can release the 26/27 with the dual recoil systems and not have issues but now they cant seem to get the 17/19 right out of the box. I mean there are reliable third party dual spring recoil assemblies out there. If they can do ti why cant Glock. Makes me wonder if there is more to it than just spring weight...
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2010
  12. BOGE

    BOGE Millennium Member

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    Total BS and has been covered here a million times before. Many here, myself included, had trouble with 2nd & 3rd Gen. Glocks with pansy 115 gr. range ammo.


    Lay off the Bruce Willis & zombie movies. :upeyes:`
     
  13. KaPPaBaLL

    KaPPaBaLL MemberScratcher

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    my next glock will be a gen4. I thought glock had already fixed the issues of not feeding softer loaded ammo with a new recoil spring?? Why all the ruckus
     
  14. TSAX

    TSAX USAF Vet

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    Regardless of what we think of any 115 fmj ammo, the WWB or Federal or PMC or whatever is the more economical and easiest to get at places like Walmart and gun shows.
     
  15. Sonnytoo

    Sonnytoo

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    I agree. If it says 9mm Luger, 9x19mm Parabellum or 9x19mm on the box, it should function out of my Glock 9's. That, of course, also means that manufacturers (ammo and handgun) are expected to deliver a product that meets the specifications of that cartridge.
    The two popular 9mm choices that we often find locally are Winchester White Box and Federal Champion, both in 115 grain FMJ RN variety. They have functioned fine in my four Glock 9's.
    Note that in my very recent chronograph testing (Nov 8), the velocities of these two ammo brands easily exceed 1100 fps, and two of the five WWB sample rounds actually exceeded 1200 fps.

    https://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1284001
    Sonnytoo
     
  16. spodwo

    spodwo

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    Funny how some seem to make the same excuse Taurus lovers make about some of their pistols: "Shoot better ammo and they are more reliable". Huh? I thought we were talking about Glock?

    I have two Glocks - both Gen 3. I shoot everything through them without any issues to date - not one FTE or jam.



    The OP, to me, is an "excuse" post as to why something doesn't work right. 1000 fps 9mm? None of the Walmart target loads are near that - Federal, WWB, RWS and Tula cranks at 1130 plus FPS so minimally, the post is offering mis-information. I guess if you buy target load 147 grain...you get to the 1000 fps number...but NOTHING in the Walmart case is less than 1130 FPS-1180 fps].

    QUOTE]My gun is about 98% with softer 115gr factory loads,[/QUOTE]

    Uh...ok - so it does act like a Taurus 709 then... and the reason I don't have it anymore and now have a Kahr PM9 [which despite the 200 round "break in" mandate and love ‘em/hate ‘em posts about that pistol - the Kahr functioned flawlessly on WWB, Federal, and Tula 9mm "softer 115gr" loads]. Huh?



    The dual spring was, to me, an answer to some of the reliability issues with the G22 - the "mistake" that was made was not considering a different spring assembly for the G19/G17s.

    But if you make a "Chevy"/"everyman" pistol - it should shoot "Chevy"/"everyman" ammo reliably.

    Regardless - I am glad I have the Glocks I have and may get a Gen 4 some year...

    Glock makes [or made] a great no frills pistol. But I guess they needed to keep up with the "Jones’s"...
     
  17. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

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    I might consider a Gen4 G23 but will probably purchase a Gen3 G19 instead. But who knows...that purchase is a couple of months away.
     
  18. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

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    Wow, I didn't realize how much /font/color/size was in your post until I quoted it..

    Anyhow, I'm not making the same argument that taurus owners do (although, I've never read a taurus thread). My particular argument is that I believe glock designed this pistol to shoot high power defensive loads in a softer and more manageable fashion. The downside to this is that loads that don't have as much punch (i.e. range loads) will occasionally not have enough punch to fully cycle the slide.

    My comment about underpowered factory loads may have been an exaggeration, but it was not mis-information. 115gr factory practice loads DO NOT have the same power as a 124/147gr +P defensive load. That is my whole point.

    I believe you are mistaken as to the intent of glock with producing the dual recoil spring, as the feeding issues with the glock 22 were related to a tac light and fixed with new mag springs...

    I'm not really following your 709/PM9 comment and it's relevance to this thread, I'm glad your PM9 functions great with lighter factory loads, so does mine. For that matter, so do many guns (i.e. Gen3 Glock19). But those guns also have a harder recoil when shooting high power defensive rounds than the Gen4 guns do, which I believe is what the Gen4 guns were designed for.

    It will still shoot lighter factory loads, and even cycle it almost all of the time. But again my point is, who cares if you have an FTF on the range. These guns are flawless with high power rounds, shoot softer than their counterparts with high power rounds, and in the heat of the moment in a shootout, you'll be using high power rounds and can have confidence that your Gen4 will be 100%.

    Except for the guy above that plans on being in the middle of nowhere, losing all his ammo, filling his mags (how'd we lose our ammo but not our mags) with 115gr WWB from walmart, then getting into a huge gun battle.. lol?
     
  19. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

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    The bad thing is, there have been enough people complaining to Glock that they came out with an 04 spring to shoot softer loads. There have been reports on this forum of people who have tried them, and while they report success with previous feeding issues, they also report a noted increase in felt recoil.

    I just hope the 02 (g17) and 03 (g19) springs are still available for those of us who prefer them.
     
  20. BOGE

    BOGE Millennium Member

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    Well, imagine that!! :upeyes: :tongueout: You cannot get something for nothing in physics, despite what many GT'ers believe.