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Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by TheDreadnought, Sep 13, 2020.
not all rifle HPs are designed to fragment.
And this is why the US Army Judge Advocate General said that it’s okay to use these types of hollow points because the open tip was designed for accuracy and not for deformation ala “dum dum” bullets ban in The Hague Convention.
I know that the US Military uses OTM bullets a lot. Good thing that I’m a civilian and can actually use bullets that are designed to do maximum damage on flesh and bones.
In the Corps we used M318 which frags. It’s a hollow point. It’s not a match round. They call it OTM barrier blind.
federal makes a LE HP 223 55gn. LE223E. It’s frangments. It’s a Sierra game king bullet. Rifle hollow points work differently then pistol hollow points. Someone pointed out that some of the match bullets are not designed to frag. That is correct but many do. MK262 OTM frags.
FYI. The US never signed The Hague.
You are spreading disinformation. Many rifle HP’s are designed to Frag. It’s not just for accuracy. Mk 318, LE223E, Mk262 all frag. There are others that are made for accuracy but not all.
Except that this is civilian world and we don’t have to use what the Corps issued.
In the civilian world, when it comes to expanding ammo, the only hollow points that are designed to fragment are the varmint loads. Medium and large game hollow points loads are all controlled expansion types. Of course some of these hollow points work better than others when it comes to weight retention and expansion
the USA may not have signed The Hague Accords but the US Military still abides by it. Didnt the Corps hold trainings Rules of Land Warfare. I know that the US Army did, at least it did 35-years ago when I went through basic training plus annual refresher trainings.
M193 also fragmented just fine too, and it wasn’t even a hollow point.
I keep 50gr JHP loaded up in my mags.....I’ve seen what they do to coyotes I imagine they will have the same effect on people
I don’t remember back then..lol. The MK318 is a very devastating round. It’s frags and penetrates deep. It was designed that way.
I believe you.
but how easy is it to find MK318, MK262 and M855A1 on the civilian market?
whereas good commercial soft points and hollow points are plentiful...well, maybe not plentiful right now.
not to mention giving overzealous DAs more “ammo” to prosecute you even for a righteous case of self defense.
No I'm not. But whatever.
You do realize people are much larger than Coyotes, right?
Speer 62gr bonded core Gold Dots. Buy the bullets and load yourself. I load them with 25-26 grains of TAC. If you are concerned about using handloads buy factory. Train with handloads and carry factory loads for social work.
I see you're a Gunblast fan too.
75 grain gold dots. Great bullet.
I’m willing to bet that coyotes are tougher than people.
twenty something years ago, I shot a coyote on the run with a hand load Nosler Ballistic Tip .308. The bullet literally cut the thing in half with nothing but the spine holding the two halves together. It was still mewing and the front legs still tried to crawl by the time I ran to the coyote from 250-yards away.
had to give it a coup de grace to the head.
Yes that’s a good point. Price is a big factor. Probably best to stick with GD or fusion. Those are as good as anything.
In a rifle, it don't matter, either will work just fine.
Barns 223 vor-tx 55gr in the 10.5" AR pistol and 70gr in my carbine . Good for defense and hunting
Recently bought a few boxes of Underwood Controlled Chaos .223 using a Lehigh Defense 62 gr. bullet. Really impressive in some of the testing I’ve seen. Also have several hundred rounds of 62 gr Gold Dots and several thousand rounds of Xm193
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He’s actually correct.
OTM stands for Open Tip Match. The Federal LE223E uses a 55 grain Sierra Matchking, similar to the Mod 262’s 77 grain matchking with an added cannelure.
Mk318’s projectile is produced by ATK/federal and is designated OTMRP
Open Tip Match Rear Penetrator. And is specifically made from base to front to avoid being classified as a hollow point.
While those bullets will fragment if they hit a target with enough energy, they are produced as open tip match bullets produced to be exceptionally accurate. Which is specifically why Sierra does not suggest the Matchking as a hunting bullet.