Social worker with Police on calls

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Tvov, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    Not exactly. . .but you know that already. The upside? Officers went home alive and mostly well. Mental hygiene support aint a panacea either.

    I can only imagine the initial thought when this officer broke down the front door believing he was TRULY making an effort to help. Makes one think twice now, huh?

     
  2. Lucnik

    Lucnik

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    I’m not gonna read it all. Just send the social worker in first. Blue Lives Matter!
     

  3. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    There are plenty of instances where officers are attacked as soon as they arrive at a call of a person having mental health issues or just a “well being check”

    Had that happen to me, sent on a well being check on a guy with a history of mental health issues and soon as I arrived the guy came out with a bayonet and tried to kill me.
     
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  4. pgg00

    pgg00

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    Yep. Pulled up on one and as soon as I approached he tried to pull a bowie knife out of his waistband. He ended up with his head busted open on my push bumper
     
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  5. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    Mine found out it was a bad idea to bring a bayonet to a gunfight.
     
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  6. nikerret

    nikerret Mr. Awesome

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    “Tried”. He must not have known that to succeed, one must try and try again. Something tells me he wasn’t prepared to fail forward.
     
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  7. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    No. The CIT training if properly done is not simple awareness. It’s more how deal with the person than a college psychology class which is more concerned about classifications and diagnosis.

    It’s the difference between a biology class and a first aid class. In a first aid class, one doesn’t need to know most of the terms definitions, root causes, etc.

    CIT training is highly focused on solving the immediate problem of getting them to surrender to go to treatment rather than “curing” or classifying the patient as a psychologist would be.

    Think of it more of a fireman vs a doctor rather than trying to teach a cop to be a doctor.
    Certain trained firemen are great at extricating people from wreaked cars and patching them up just long enough to get them to the emergency room. They aren’t great at curing the person of their illness. A doctor skill set is great at curing the person but often lacks the ability to extricating a person from a wreaked car. Some doctors know how but most are inexperienced at it . Most doctors only see patients in a controlled atmosphere or after the psychological break. And has someone to physically help them if that is called for.
     
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  8. Scott1970

    Scott1970

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    I went to it when it was initially rolled out around here, and it quickly became known as the hug a thug program. Traditional criminal behavior becoming reclassified as crisis has been met with plenty of resistance at the street level. Addressing the situation at hand is a lot quicker than dealing with the root cause creating the situation at hand.
     
  9. PatinAz

    PatinAz

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    If they want to cease the black vs white narrative, they need look no further than the media.
     
  10. tom mac

    tom mac

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    and all is well till the first Soc worker gets beaned by the wife during a domestic.
     
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  11. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    I thought CIT was ongoing? I guess you're saying it's not continuous education or continuous improvement training similar to weapons recert., fitness training, etc. etc.?

    If not ongoing, should it be?
     
  12. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    I don’t think you know what’s in the proper training,
    It’s 40 hours or more of focused training including real actors to play the part of new emotionally distressed people ( a physical aspect), getting real mental ill people to come in, talk, socialize, and explain their reality etc. It’s also for them to learn from us including the psychological professionals. They had/have a lot to Learn from cops who actually deal with the mentally ill in a certain environment more than they do.

    With all the other training, it’s too much time to take officers away from their job, get mentally ill who are willing to talk and learn. And get all of the officers trained.
    Remember that cops use this stuff everyday unlike the gun training, the CBRNE training, the terrorist awareness training , the active shooter training, medical training ( CPR, Defib, etc), the legal updates training, etc.
    The real CIT training isn’t a quick refresher course type of thing. It’s not about acronyms or definitions. A refresher course would only be that in name only. A real “refresher “ would require the whole course over again with different people. Something that most departments can not afford to send regular patrol officers to every year due to time. Nor is it necessary in reality. Remember that we deal with more mentally ill in a actual crisis than most psychological professionals do who see them but....after we bring them to them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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  13. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    I understand your perspective. I believe you're expressing to me "training" is ongoing, but are also saying "training" falls below the level of reinforcement/sustainment training than say, CBRNE/gun/medical/terrorist awareness or active duty training? You're correct. From a local level, I can't speak to overall training of officers. Militarily, I know "tough training makes combat easy." We were constantly drilled with ethics training, race relations training, stress reduction training, and all things of the mind and soul to ensure we protected each other and ourselves from those trying to harm us. PTSD affects law enforcement as much as even greater than the military. Why? Because . . .by the nature of "to protect and to serve," law enforcement is out seeking those who wish to infringe upon others, therefore, they need every tool possible to protect themselves. . .which means educating and training them to incorporate the power of the mind to influence others to do the right thing. For me, that means crisis intervention training for any and every situation they are most likely to encounter on the streets. That means constant scenarios of incorporating verbal judo with less incisive people, "cra cras," or those who Mensa believing arrogant asses who believe cops are morons. Cops should always be prepared to either win those altercations. . .worse case? A draw and everyone walk away. It's OJE/OJT for every officer. Just my take.

    CBRNE? Specialty training. SWAT? Specialty training. People are talking to people everyday! Who teaches them daily about verbal judo? Do they learn as they go?
     
  14. jd4223

    jd4223

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    I remember the days when EMS would respond to calls of assaults/domestic violence/shootings /stabbings and would be first on the scene running into the house thinking they were immune/exempt from being assaulted by the people they were there to help. They learned real quick it didn't matter that "they were the good guys " After a few of the EMS responders were stabbed and shot,it was mandatory that they remained outside until police arrived and made sure the scene was safe. Kind of like when the locals would set their neighborhood on fire then shoot at the fire dept. when they arrived to put out the fires then complain when their house burned down...lol. Typical Obama/Democrat supporters.
     
  15. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    You sound like a youngster millennial. I was an EMT back in 1982. Even back then, we waited for LEOs to arrive on scene or we went in afterward they told us okay. What elementary school were you in at that time? I remember law enforcement always reminding us tis better to be judged by 12 vice carried by six as if related to conceal carry while on duty.

    I think that was doing times when it was the "trickle down" economy to improve people's financial wealth. You catch my drift there, young blood?
     
  16. thespork

    thespork

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    I don't know what the answer is, but dealing with the mentally ill is not an easy thing to do.
    A buddy of mine is a nurse, has been for years, but started working psyche a few years ago.
    He's said he is just now feeling like he's getting the hang of assessing people, understanding where they are, and where they'll likely be in the immediate future is hard...
    He did say, when he was first "on his own" he had to resort to having a person physically restrained and shot up with geodon or haldol, but now he can convince many of them to take medication voluntarily.


    Cities that have dedicated mental health response units, with extra training, are seeing better outcomes, with less violent outcomes, so that should tell you things..
    It is probably impractical for every badge to get that kind of training, but it is a good idea that some do...

    But it's hard to convince some, LEOs seem especially vulnerable to the dunning kreuger effect...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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  17. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    I don't put that on LEOs. Mental illness never goes away. People forget words like "backsliding" or "off the wagon" can apply to mental health issues.
     
  18. jd4223

    jd4223

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    Back in 1975 in Detroit when I was 22 years old. Prior to that we used to have Fire Rescue for transporting the sick and injured and every precinct had a station wagon with 2 stretchers for transporting since they only had a few EMS vehicles for the entire city. I was always assigned to the station wagon since I was a rookie(2 years on the job). Would be busy the entire shift transporting gun shot victims and stabbings to the hospital not counting the times we would have to carry the stretcher up 6 floors in an apartment building(no elevators) to convey a 600lb woman who busted the toilet seat when sitting on it. Back in them days it was like working at the 4077 Mash Unit. Our main hospital down town would do surgery in the hall way on a Friday and Saturday night due to the number of shootings and stabbings(Like Chicago on the weekends). The doctor would ask you if you were right or left handed and tell you to stick out your hand and slap a rubber glove on it and you were part of the surgical team in the hall way. They had an old guy who's job it was to have a mop and bucket to clean up the blood in the hall way!
     
  19. thespork

    thespork

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    I don't either...
    All I'm saying its a hard problem...

    We're never going back to mass institutionalization.. did you know until the early 70s there were more people in mental confinement than prison?

    We're never going that way again.. as a society, we're just too cheap...

    And not that this era was a panacea anyways, as a lot of people endured abusive, sometimes brutal confinement, for the most ridiculous of reasons, like being a hyperactive child, or being gay...

    So like it or not, we are in this situation, and LEOs have to be mental-health orderlies among a 1000 other hats...
    It's actually a good thing that they get support in this regard, even if they are too proud/macho to admit they could use it
     
  20. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    As far as learn as you go vs formal training. It’s both. Cops get CIT training and use parts of it everyday. Talking is the main part of our business believe it or not.
    CIT training isn’t about treatment but rather getting people to volunteer to get help or how to get help. PTSD is common and an option used seranio is talking to the suicidal cop with PTSD. Remember that CIT is about dealing with the person in the middle of the crisis and not the preventive measures or post treatment. There are other programs and treatments that address that such as our POPPA program ( peer assistance program ).

    Again, it’s training focused to deal with the immediate crisis as it’s happening.

    Unlike the other training where it’s a specific set of actions to be conducted, the CIT isn’t that way nor as a perishable skill like that other training. And some of the skill set from CIT is incorporated into other training.
    Again it’s an intensive training that is narrowly focused on that goal of being in that emotionally disturbed or distressed person in for treatment while they are actually in crisis. It’s not a plug and play type training. People often don’t respond to that well especially if they have been a repeat customer.
    The police rarely can stand down patrol units for training as often as the military does.
     
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