So you want to be a stock trader?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Beendare, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Beendare

    Beendare Stick and String, SME, NRA life member

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    Heres a chart to the best /Worst Hedge funds performance this year- worth a look. Link is to Zero Hedge article, 'Best and worst hedge funds" 10/17/19 for those that don't like to click

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/c...ke-here-are-best-and-worst-performering-hedge

    A couple finance threads here recently...just thought I would post some facts.

    Its true, some of the smartest folks around are involved in this finance industry...but its worth noting that even they can lose money in the markets...and it turns out some are losing a LOT.

    Can a guy make money in the markets? Of course they can....but trying to trade against these outfits Hourly/Daily is bad idea....and here's proof. Nice to make over 50% in a year...but if you lose 40% the next year...that kind of fluctuation will make you old before your time.

    And don't forget the tax consequences.......
     
  2. Ramjet38

    Ramjet38 Mentally Frozen

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    Hog futures, or maybe Hedgehog commodities (you would cover both).
     
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  3. snerd

    snerd Horselover Fat

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    Chicago pork bellies.......
     
  4. ocjackel

    ocjackel

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  5. Adjuster

    Adjuster

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    If I can make 200$ on lending 1000$ in 30 days or less loan is that a good return?



    /
     
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  6. BuckeyeGlock77

    BuckeyeGlock77

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  7. Guss

    Guss

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    What happened to the "hedge" in hedge funds?
     
  8. jim goose

    jim goose "The Goose"

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    A lot of hedge funds are phony. Guys running them that have no real derivative experience. A real hedge fund is doing arbitrage that is an alternative to normal stock mkt risk/return. Spin offs, mergers, option volatility dispersion etc. something that requires major investment in people, technology, exchange seats etc.

    The best funds are private, don’t need more money because arbitrage is not always scalable.
     
  9. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    Well, a few observations, all the people named in that article are self made Billionaires, so I think they would be the first to tell you, being a hedge fund manager is alright.

    Even Pershing Square who only recently started have decent years after many really dismal, Bill would tell you, individually, he worries more about his charitable giving than how he is doing in a particular month, so, yeah, really brutal. :)
     
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  10. Aurora

    Aurora

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    I could type for hours about what's real and what's not in terms of trading the financial markets. I try not to, since it makes some folks here really, really mad. I'll try and keep it short and sweet.

    I'm primarily a commodity trader but I started studying stock trading to help my friends. I'm not comfortable exposing "civilians" to the unlimited risk of commodity trading. I decided to try my hand at developing viable methods to trade stocks at the SAME profit levels as the commodity markets.

    The task took far, far longer than I anticipated - 12 years to be exact. Transferring the methods of trading the commodity markets to stocks just didn't come easily for me.

    For example;....

    A low margin commodity contract usually attracts a lot of amateur traders since the cost of admittance is low. These low margin commodity contracts can't be traded like the larger, high margin contracts. The systems have to be more strict due to volatility. Larger contracts trend better since the participants are more experienced.

    So, for this particular point, the practical answer is "you can't trade a penny stock like a blue chip". That's a "well, duh" type of statement for many here but it took me a long time to figure out.

    My point is this; a lot of what you read about in terms of what is possible and what isn't is based on context and circumstance. A large fund with a large amount of money in play can't do the same things as someone using a smaller amount. It's like pushing around an elephant vs being on a race horse.

    Due diligence in terms of what you believe is true or not.

    Food for thought.

    V.
     
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  11. HalfHazzard

    HalfHazzard Trump Sucks

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    Who is this Tyler Durden guy anyway?
     
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  12. tuica

    tuica

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  13. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    Brad Pit - movie the Fight Club

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0137523/fullcredits


    ZeroHedge is using this name - and allowing many different people to publish under it -

    I think the original concept was - they could be totally honest and not feel pressure if they presented stuff that was off the beaten path or controversial.

    ZeroHedge has some good stuff - but it also has a lot of crazy stuff - and a tint of conspiracy.

    People post stuff on ZH that would get you immediately banned on GT - I would say it is almost no rules. Sort of like Fight Club.

    This was more true years ago - and is now - mostly anyway - sort of a GT for financial and political stuff. Without any moderators jumping on you if you post something racist or homophobic or violent or sexually explicit.
     
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  14. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    . . . not to mention, cost you 10% of your investment over a two year period. That's a pretty terrible return any way you slice it.

    There are some on here convinced of their own genius though. They probably view that as "not bad."
     
  15. Walter Bishop

    Walter Bishop

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    You don't buy and sell hedge funds like stocks. Day traders might own a stock for a few minutes. Hedge fund and private equity funds have long lock up periods. You might only be allowed to sell shares a few times per year.
     
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  16. HalfHazzard

    HalfHazzard Trump Sucks

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    I’d say it’s 50/50 decent sleuthing for financial stories and conspiracy theory. Both are great reading.
     
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  17. Critch

    Critch

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    I worked for Shearson Loeb Rhodes, and it's successors for 10 years. Mostly bonds and commodities. 1980 to 1990. I worked with some really smart people. I learned a lot and I used it in my own finances. However, I hated selling for a living. I really disliked people in NYC trying to tell me how to sell to people in Swampeast Missouri. I really liked doing commodity hedge accounts for these farmers. I liked muni bonds.
     
  18. Beendare

    Beendare Stick and String, SME, NRA life member

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    A guy can do good in the markets with some research....and a longer timeline.
    I prefer long term trend ideas. So a guy that bought oil stocks and Halliburton when G Bush was elected did well. Health care killed it with Obama. When interest rates spike up hard shorting auto stocks is a no brainer- that sort of thing. You can use this same type strategy with sector funds....or even country funds. Mexico popped with the free trade agreement. You might not be on the cutting edge of max profits as we tend to get the key info later than the pros...but there is still a good profit in there usually.

    A guy can do well in individual stocks too. When you first went into a Costco- didn't you know it was going to be huge? Probably not a lot of Lulu fans here but their stuff is killer- women know it and now a lot of men do too.

    Then understand that the overall market trend dictates a lot.....best not to fight that. I have bought quality companies at lows ...just do your homework as on the surface a blue chip like GE might look good but after some research you see it stinks.

    Yeah, I would agree with that mix. I think its like much of the media stuff we see- you have to read everything with a bit of skepticism. In Zero Hedges case....there is an undertone of self serving going on to....no doubt when they short something like Tesla- they pile on every stupid comment by Musk and publish pics of every flaming Tesla.

    ZH does post some good info that is hard to get otherwise; John Mauldins comments, internal Goldman Sacks stuff, etc. The crazy conspiracy stuff is there too.....like the Gold guys [huge commissions] trying to get you to put all your savings in gold.

    ZH is like anything internet related; Check the source first. Glock Talk is no different....you pay attention to the guys that know their stuff....and disregard the noise.

    ...
     
  19. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I manage our own account. What I do and why I do it is related very much to what traditional hedge funds were about, which is pretty far from today’s average hedge fund.

    Hedge funds originally were created for wealthy family estates as a vehicle to participate in the equity markets, but limit downside risk. The idea that you only need to get rich once.

    Originally hedge funds pitched the notion that by hedging risk, the client could participate in equities, albeit at reduced expectations of returns over just buying an index. That is, they would under perform the market but the payback with greatly reduced risk exposure.

    That basically is the objective I have for my own trading. To participate in the equity market (bonds are just crazy expensive these days) but limit my downside (I am 68, have been retired for over 20 years and support my life style nearly 100% on investment returns).

    Some people are convinced they are not smart enough to pull off the above, many times, that is wise counsel.
     
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  20. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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