[bdcochran]

The grizzled cameo Sgt. asked a strange question of my Army Company. "How many of you were Eagle Scouts?" He then explained. A study of wound/kia statistics in Vietnam correlated surival to rank achieved in the Boy Scouts at Star Scout and above.

He then related that when the US Army adopted a 30 day in-country training course in Vietnam, the casualties were substantially reduced - and most casualties occured within the first 30 days in the field in a combat unit.

It might too much to expect you to practice bugging out with a pack, if you are thinking of bugging out when shtf. However, you can and should have a series of skills goals. It may be a committment of a few hours for a refresher course in CPR. Or it may be a 6 weeks course in small engine repair at night.

It may ultimately be a situation in which you teach yourself skills.

One example is that you can take a weekend course in a Tom Brown type course in animal tracking. Then you have to take the time to hone the skills so that they become second nature. I know a big game guide who taught himself to spot a stationary deer 100 yards away while driving country roads (he also taught optics to the Marines).

Or it may be putting on welder's goggles with progressively darker lenses and attempt low light shooting on an indoor range. You learn that the old mantra of two to the chest and one to the head does not work in poor light (and doesn't work in bright sunlight either).

 

[quake]

...the old mantra of two to the chest and one to the head does not work in poor light (and doesn't work in bright sunlight either).

I agree with everything in your post, but don't understand this part; especially the "it doesn't work in bright light either" part...?

 

[bdcochran]

duplicate

 

[bdcochran]

First, I do not advocate shooting anyone.

If a person is shot, he does not stand still like a target on a frame. He crumples. As the person crumples, the muzzle of the firearm follows the person to the ground.

If you practice only shooting the head of a target, you will be shooting in the air above the person when shtf.

Explanation about shooting in low light. Many people are taught to shoot center mass (not desirable if you are capable of shooting base of the throat or bladder). If you shoot a target in extremely low light to the point that you can barely see the target outlined in the light, you learn to line up your sights (if you use them) to one side of the target and then move the muzzle onto the target. This is what I mean as an example of teaching yourself skills.

The two to the chest and one to the head concept has other fallacies. The chest is larger than the head. If you cannot shoot the chest, you should have a harder time shooting the head. If you insist on shooting this way, you will not train yourself to shoot an exposed arm, an exposed leg or hand as well.

Teach yourself to shoot base of the throat to start. If you shoot high, low, right or left, the person is out of action whether he is wearing body armor or not. Thereafter, teach yourself to shoot specific parts of the body so that you are focused on shooting what is presented.

 

[cowboy1964]

Two things I want to sharpen up on are knot tying and CPR. Useful and life-saving skills regardless of what else is going on in the world.

 

[17445]

CPR is definitely perishable. We have the annual refreshers and it is not enough. Life saving and utility skills wil be way more useful than combat and shooting. It will be used a lot more, guaranteed.

 

[17445]

CPR is definitely perishable. We have the annual refreshers and it is not enough. Life saving and utility skills wil be way more useful than combat and shooting. It will be used a lot more, guaranteed.

 

[AK_Stick]

First, I do not advocate shooting anyone.

If a person is shot, he does not stand still like a target on a frame. He crumples. As the person crumples, the muzzle of the firearm follows the person to the ground.

If you practice only shooting the head of a target, you will be shooting in the air above the person when shtf.

Explanation about shooting in low light. Many people are taught to shoot center mass (not desirable if you are capable of shooting base of the throat or bladder). If you shoot a target in extremely low light to the point that you can barely see the target outlined in the light, you learn to line up your sights (if you use them) to one side of the target and then move the muzzle onto the target. This is what I mean as an example of teaching yourself skills.

The two to the chest and one to the head concept has other fallacies. The chest is larger than the head. If you cannot shoot the chest, you should have a harder time shooting the head. If you insist on shooting this way, you will not train yourself to shoot an exposed arm, an exposed leg or hand as well.

Teach yourself to shoot base of the throat to start. If you shoot high, low, right or left, the person is out of action whether he is wearing body armor or not. Thereafter, teach yourself to shoot specific parts of the body so that you are focused on shooting what is presented.

Realistically, shooting at the base of the throat, is great if you're a awesome shot, and/or at point blank distance. But its unrealistic in most engagements.

There is a very real reason center mass became the common aiming point.



Secondly, the whole two to the chest, one to the head, came about, because of people who were unresponsive, to the center mass shot. I.E. they're not crumpling to the shot. But rather they're taking the hit, and still moving forward. If you hit a guy and he's crumpling to the ground, you don't need to continue the failure to stop drill, he's stopping.

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

Many learned skills like shooting are perishable, thats why you must keep them honed.

 

[Stevekozak]

Many learned skills like shooting are perishable, thats why byou must keep them honed.

This is the truth many ppl forget. They think that once they have learned skill, they can just let it go and move on to something else. Most skills require practice to remain effective!!

 

[beatcop]

I would like to see that "study".

 

[expatman]

Realistically, shooting at the base of the throat, is great if you're a awesome shot, and/or at point blank distance. But its unrealistic in most engagements.

There is a very real reason center mass became the common aiming point.



Secondly, the whole two to the chest, one to the head, came about, because of people who were unresponsive, to the center mass shot. I.E. they're not crumpling to the shot. But rather they're taking the hit, and still moving forward. If you hit a guy and he's crumpling to the ground, you don't need to continue the failure to stop drill, he's stopping.

^ This^

 

[cyrsequipment]

First, I do not advocate shooting anyone.

If a person is shot, he does not stand still like a target on a frame. He crumples. As the person crumples, the muzzle of the firearm follows the person to the ground.

:shocked:

First, AK said it before but, why are you training to shoot someone who has already "crumpled"? :faint:

Second, Why do you think that everyone "crumples" when shot? Many people don't "crumple" when shot, some don't even visibly react.

Third, if you are shooting over someone's head as they are moving down (I won't say "crumples" again because that is implying you're shooting someone who is no longer a threat to you at all) then you really are shooting faster than your skill allows, you need to slow down a bit... Unless you're shooting fullauto and the muzzle climb is too much for you to handle... either way, that is a lack of shooting ability, not tactics.

 

[17445]

From what I have heard, some military units shoot their targets one more time after the target has dropped to ensure they stay down and do not rise back up, zombie style. Then again, this was hearsay from someone who was in an elite unit. Maybe he just told me that so he can keep shooting airsoft bb's at me after I got dropped.

 

[quake]

From what I have heard, some military units shoot their targets one more time after the target has dropped to ensure they stay down and do not rise back up, zombie style. Then again, this was hearsay from someone who was in an elite unit. Maybe he just told me that so he can keep shooting airsoft bb's at me after I got dropped.

When I was volunteering at a training facility, playing 'bad guy' for the good guys to train against, one agency did that very thing. The NNSA (national nuclear security agency) guys using M-4's would do two to the torso then one to the head; and the head shot was typically after the guy was down. They called it "dead checking" and I'd never encountered it, or even heard of it, other than with those guys.

 

[cyrsequipment]

From what I have heard, some military units shoot their targets one more time after the target has dropped to ensure they stay down and do not rise back up, zombie style. Then again, this was hearsay from someone who was in an elite unit. Maybe he just told me that so he can keep shooting airsoft bb's at me after I got dropped.

I can see that, in a military setting, but otherwise the tactic it is a bit, um, problematic...

 

[RED64CJ5]

We scalp 'em afterwards. That settles everything.

 

[Bilbo Bagins]

I can see that, in a military setting, but otherwise the tactic it is a bit, um, problematic...

Police or Civilian definately problematic :rofl:

Military, you will be suprised how many times a soldier would shoot at a dead body "just in case" or because they swear they saw it move.

 

[cyrsequipment]

Military, you will be suprised how many times a soldier would shoot at a dead body "just in case" or because they swear they saw it move.

Oh, yea you're right. I've had to train Vets on police shooting techniques. We were teaching room clearing and one guy kept reaching for his grenades, and another guy did just that... The bad guy was down and then he (the officer) reloaded and shot twice more (simunitions)... That required a bit of "retraining"...

 

[Bushflyr]

I can see that, in a military setting, but otherwise the tactic it is a bit, um, problematic...

Even more appropriate than in a military setting is in a domestic terrorism scenario. There, NNSA, you have a very real probability of a "dead" bad guy still being able to do significant damage while you deal with other threats.

To quote one instructor, "We only cuff compliant subjects. If they're not compliant, shoot them till they are."