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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted a question to my friend (offline) as to which caliber is the #1 "Manstopper" on the street. This after a previous discussion as to if "Manstopper" is a "Myth". Next, could it be "Quantifiable". Next "Where" can the "Proof" be "Found"? Next, Why is the 357 Magnum only in "Revolver Handguns"? That last question was derived after we found adequate answers to the other questions, which lead up to the 357 Magnum in Revolvers only question.
 

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The. 357sig is the mag's equivalent in semi-autos.
Coonan Arms made a .357mag in auto form but it never went anywhere. They went belly up years ago but are back in business again now. Their guns are in the $1600 and up range. And that's the discount price.
 

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.357 mag is a rimmed centerfire cartridge, and rimmed centerfire cartridges don't work very well in semi-auto's. The fat rims lowers capacity, and if not loaded correctly the rims can hang up on one another.

Further the .357 Mag is 1.59" COAL. The longest common pistol auto loader round is the 10mm Auto at 1.260" COAL (C.I.P.) meaning it's over a 1/4" shorter than the 357 mag. Can you imagine how long front to back a semi-auto's grip would have to be to contain a 357 mag round??
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The. 357sig is the mag's equivalent in semi-autos.
Coonan Arms made a .357mag in auto form but it never went anywhere. They went belly up years ago but are back in business again now. Their guns are in the $1600 and up range. And that's the discount price.
Ouch!!! For that Price, I could purchase ALL three (3) 357Sig's that Glock makes!!!
 

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357 Mag is a rimed cartridge, maybe that is hard to design a pistol around?
Desert Eagle, but that is larger than most people are willing / able to carry.

As far as rankings, I've got the "Stopping Power" book from 2001, (FYI)
357 Mag 125 JHP from Rem & Fed were both 96%
45 acp 230 Hydra-Shok and 185 GS were also 96%
(These were the highest ranked handgun loads)

My opinion: A... (pick one)
45 acp 230 HST or Ranger T fired from about a 4'' or longer barrel (Glock 30, 21, or 1911)
357 Sig 125 HST / Gold Dot from a 4'' or longer barrel (Glock 32, 31)
10mm "full power" offering from ~ 4'' or longer barrel (recoil may be stout) (Glock 29, 20, 1911)
Is about as "hard hitting" as one can easily conceal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
.357 mag is a rimmed centerfire cartridge, and rimmed centerfire cartridges don't work very well in semi-auto's. The fat rims lowers capacity, and if not loaded correctly the rims can hang up on one another.

Further the .357 Mag is 1.59" COAL. The longest common pistol auto loader round is the 10mm Auto at 1.260" COAL (C.I.P.) meaning it's over a 1/4" shorter than the 357 mag. Can you imagine how long front to back a semi-auto's grip would have to be to contain a 357 mag round??
That all makes PERFECT sense! Every point you made was intelligent, knowledgeable and non-judgemental to a "Newbie" like me! Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
357 Mag is a rimed cartridge, maybe that is hard to design a pistol around?
Desert Eagle, but that is larger than most people are willing / able to carry.

As far as rankings, I've got the "Stopping Power" book from 2001, (FYI)
357 Mag 125 JHP from Rem & Fed were both 96%
45 acp 230 Hydra-Shok and 185 GS were also 96%
(These were the highest ranked handgun loads)

My opinion: A... (pick one)
45 acp 230 HST or Ranger T fired from about a 4'' or longer barrel (Glock 30, 21, or 1911)
357 Sig 125 HST / Gold Dot from a 4'' or longer barrel (Glock 32, 31)
10mm "full power" offering from ~ 4'' or longer barrel (recoil may be stout) (Glock 29, 20, 1911)
Is about as "hard hitting" as one can easily conceal.
Being a "Newbie", I've never shot the 10MM. But I've read about it's power! Now That's SCARY!
 

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No magic in the 357magnum. It is about the bullet & velocity achieved. So the 357sig fills that need quite nicely. Most good 125gr JHP loads will deliver 1350-1400fps in 4" guns, pretty much where the 125gr 357mag loads would do in 4" guns. The greater advantage is semiautos are easier to shoot & hold more rounds in a smaller package. My P239 is 8+1 & smaller than a 357mag snub, but handles like a 4" revo.
 

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In the 1970s when the German police were in general upgunning from .32 to 9mm autos, there was one elite unit that shed a bitter tear when their .357 revolvers were obsoleted.

You ought not to go titillating the crowd with a Smolt, Fred.
 

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In the 1970s when the German police were in general upgunning from .32 to 9mm autos, there was one elite unit that shed a bitter tear when their .357 revolvers were obsoleted.

You ought not to go titillating the crowd with a Smolt, Fred.
I was sure a revolver connoiseur would note that.:D It started life as a 6" M19/blue. Back before the M686, Python bbls were pretty cheap. It was my first handgun & will never be sold.
 
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What make the 357 mag so good is the velocity
and the sig with the 125gr bullets is for the most
part the same. With the right loads.

This is what I got with some old 357 mag loads
and some new 357 sig loads,

old 125 gr hp remington and federal 357 mag.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, in 4'' Gp-100 and 6.5'' BH
rem,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1337fps,,,,,,,,,,,,1522fps
fed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1488fps,,,,,,,,,,,1619fps

New 124gr UW 357sig with nosler bullets
4.6''LW barrel in a G27 and a 6'' LW barrel in a G20
1526fps no jams,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1604fps no jams, both
ten shots

CAUTION, WARNING, THIS IS NOT LOAD DATA
ONLY USE DATA FROM NEW MANUALS,

You have been warned

Note the velocities with the top loads in these test,

A 125 gr bullet at 1727 fps in a six inch barrel, wish
they would have shot it in the four inch, bet it would
be over 1600 fps.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit?pli=1#gid=4

A 140 gr at 1552fps in a 4'' barrel and in a six inch 1602 fps.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit?pli=1#gid=6

A 158gr going 1428 fps in a 4'' and 1474 fps in a six inch.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit?pli=1#gid=3

A 180gr boolit at 1375 fps in a 4'' barrel and 1506 fps in a 6'',
that is enough to make a 10mm jealous,
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit?pli=1#gid=7

I have shot many loads with the heavier boolits that were
more powerful than what was tested in those links in full
size 357 magnums.

I have nineteen 357 mags with barrels from 1 3/4'' to 20'',
have a pretty good idea what it will do.

Some more info on the 357 mag,

Once again, only use new load data from a good source as
some of this is old and TOO HIGH PRESSURE,

The Three-Fifty-Seven Magnum's in My Life by Jim Taylor

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm

357 Magnum Testimonials from earlier days
1935
Major Douglas Wesson
  • Antelope - 200 yards (2 shots)
  • Elk - 130 yards (1 shot)
  • Moose - 100 yards (1 shot)
  • Grizzly Bear - 135 yards (1 shot)
The Antelope was hit the first time at 125 yards. It ran, stopped and was shot the second time at 200 yards. The second shot killed it.
The Bull Elk was killed with one shot through the lungs.
The Moose was shot in the chest near the base of the neck. It cut the 2nd rib, passed through both lungs, sheared the 8th rib on the off side and stopped just under the hide. No follow-up shot was required.
These animals were taken on a Fall hunt in Wyoming, near the West entrance of Yellowstone Park. The Grizzly was taken later in Canada.
The above game was taken using factory loads which were a 158 gr. bullet at 1515 fps from an 8 3/4" barreled S&W producing 812 ft. lbs of muzzle energy. (S&W later shortened the barrels to 8 3/8" as we have today)
To those who criticized, the Major replied that they "..had not the slightest conception of what we have accomplished in ballistics.." - a statement that still applies today.

357 MAGNUM AND THE LITERATURE
PACO

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/357_magnum_and_the_literature.htm
 

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what the Colonel left out was how long the critters suffered before bleeding out, to those swc bullets, and how small each specimen was. Also, there were no rangefinders, so the distances were probably litter more than 1/2 as far as claimed.

for a gunfight, you need an INSTANT stop, the hits will be poor hits, and many misses are the norm, due to bad light, your already being wounded, blasts and flash making you flinch, having to duck incoming blows and bullets, target movement. For animals, none of this is any concern. You take your time, get nice hits, wait half an hour, follow the blood trail and find them dead. No big deal. But in a fight, having much more shock and destruction, much faster repeat hits, than can be managed with a 357, that's what you want.
 

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What make the 357 mag so good is the velocity
and the sig with the 125gr bullets is for the most
part the same. With the right loads.

This is what I got with some old 357 mag loads
and some new 357 sig loads,

old 125 gr hp remington and federal 357 mag.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, in 4'' Gp-100 and 6.5'' BH
rem,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1337fps,,,,,,,,,,,,1522fps
fed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1488fps,,,,,,,,,,,1619fps

New 124gr UW 357sig with nosler bullets
4.6''LW barrel in a G27 and a 6'' LW barrel in a G20
1526fps no jams,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1604fps no jams, both
ten shots

CAUTION, WARNING, THIS IS NOT LOAD DATA
ONLY USE DATA FROM NEW MANUALS,

You have been warned

Note the velocities with the top loads in these test,

A 125 gr bullet at 1727 fps in a six inch barrel, wish
they would have shot it in the four inch, bet it would
be over 1600 fps.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit?pli=1#gid=4

A 140 gr at 1552fps in a 4'' barrel and in a six inch 1602 fps.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit?pli=1#gid=6

A 158gr going 1428 fps in a 4'' and 1474 fps in a six inch.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit?pli=1#gid=3

A 180gr boolit at 1375 fps in a 4'' barrel and 1506 fps in a 6'',
that is enough to make a 10mm jealous,
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit?pli=1#gid=7

I have shot many loads with the heavier boolits that were
more powerful than what was tested in those links in full
size 357 magnums.

I have nineteen 357 mags with barrels from 1 3/4'' to 20'',
have a pretty good idea what it will do.

Some more info on the 357 mag,

Once again, only use new load data from a good source as
some of this is old and TOO HIGH PRESSURE,

The Three-Fifty-Seven Magnum's in My Life by Jim Taylor

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm

357 Magnum Testimonials from earlier days
1935

Major Douglas Wesson
  • Antelope - 200 yards (2 shots)
  • Elk - 130 yards (1 shot)
  • Moose - 100 yards (1 shot)
  • Grizzly Bear - 135 yards (1 shot)
The Antelope was hit the first time at 125 yards. It ran, stopped and was shot the second time at 200 yards. The second shot killed it.
The Bull Elk was killed with one shot through the lungs.
The Moose was shot in the chest near the base of the neck. It cut the 2nd rib, passed through both lungs, sheared the 8th rib on the off side and stopped just under the hide. No follow-up shot was required.
These animals were taken on a Fall hunt in Wyoming, near the West entrance of Yellowstone Park. The Grizzly was taken later in Canada.
The above game was taken using factory loads which were a 158 gr. bullet at 1515 fps from an 8 3/4" barreled S&W producing 812 ft. lbs of muzzle energy. (S&W later shortened the barrels to 8 3/8" as we have today)
To those who criticized, the Major replied that they "..had not the slightest conception of what we have accomplished in ballistics.." - a statement that still applies today.

357 MAGNUM AND THE LITERATURE
PACO

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/357_magnum_and_the_literature.htm

No doubt the .357 can be impressive when loaded to its potential. The really nice thing about the .357 is the many platform sizes it can be had in. I'll pack a Smith model 60 with some of the mid-velocity rounds offered. They're more than a .38+P, but definitely not as brutal as a full house load. Those get saved for a longer barreled Blackhawk. The one bullet I want to play with, but haven't yet, are some 180 grain hardcast. Short of really, really, really big bears I think it would fair quite well in the woods.

As far as people go, I don't feel undergunned at all packing a 66 or a 686 with some 125 Speer Gold Dots.
 
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