How is that? Isn't the .45 ACP a much lower pressure round than either 9mm, .40 S&W, or especially .357 Sig? I bet a 220 would last longer than a 226 chambered in .357 Sig and maybe a .40 too if you shoot a lot of hot 135-155 grain loads. Keep in mind that I've never seen the results in person, but I've heard that .357 Sig and hot .40 S&W loads will really beat the **** out of your gun. Standard pressure .45 ACP doesn't really put that much stress on a gun though, does it?
The 220 was designed around the 9mm.
ETA: Note before reading the quote. I'm not posting this to knock the 220, or SIGs in general. Shoot enough rounds through enough guns of any given type, and problems will crop up. I guarantee it. Glock, HK, M&P, whatever. However, when you get the opinions and experiences of guys who have been armorers, worked in the industry, and shoot over 100,000 rounds in a year, I'll listen to that one guy before I'll listen to 100 guys who say "I've owned it for five years, shout about 500 rounds, works fine."
Here's a quote copied from another forum:
Originally Posted by ToddG
For those who don't know already, as background I was the fed/mil guy at SIG for five years (2002-2007). During that time, I carried a P220 on and off, total of probably 18 months or so.
It's hard for me to say that one model or design was the "most" problematic, primarily because I had, for instance, tens of thousands of customers using the P229R-40-DAK and only maybe a thousand using the P220 in any variant. However, I was usually privy to what other major LE agencies were going through, and certainly when major agencies dropped their P220s or SIGs in general.
These are my thoughts, take them for what they're worth:
- The P220, as the oldest SIG P22x-series gun, has been through a number of revisions. The frame was beefed up considerably in the 90's. The slide design was completely changed a few years ago. Many of the internal parts have been updated over time, too. (it's worth noting that none of this is particularly unusual in the industry)
- No one should be surprised that two essentially identical guns, one in 9mm and one in 45 Auto, would have different lifecycles. The 45 is putting much more stress on the gun. (see, e.g., the recent thread on .40-cal Glocks as compared to their 9mm brethren)
- Some P220s now come with the "competition" takedown lever, which is substantially beefed up over the regular one. The "competition" version is identifiable by having a dot inside a circle on the side opposite the paddel; standard ones are flat. I examined a number of P220 variants at a local gun shop the other day and there didn't seem to be any consistency in how the parts are assigned to various models. One exception is the P220 Combat, which have always come with the competition takedown lever. In my experience, the standard version breaks anywhere from 15-25k and renders the gun completely dead. I never put that many rounds through a competition version but based on what the engineering department told me, they survived 30k tests for the Combat.
- For the old style slides with the roll pins, it's important to replace the pins at least every 5k rounds. This is true for all SIG P22x-series guns with two-part slides. Otherwise, over time, the breech block will get loose, the slide will lose stiffness, and the steel slide will flex against the aluminum frame. This frequently results in frame cracks. Plenty of people have gone tens of thousands of rounds with their SIGs by replacing these pins.
- For the new style one-piece stainless slides (identifiable by the solid firing pin positioning pin instead of the dual roll pins in the slide), the biggest gremlin has been the extractor. There have been problems since day one. I was actually one of the last people to believe there was a problem (mea culpa) because my personal P220ST -- the first model to use this slide and extractor -- went over 18,500 rounds before it suffered its first extraction failure. But many people had problems much earlier. Ernest Langdon used to put extractors in his kitchen oven to heat treat them better, and even then he was replacing them every 3k or so to maintain reliability. SIG lost some major and minor LE contracts over the problem. Various fixes have been tried over the years (better heat treat QC, better dimensional QC, etc) but recently SIG finally switched to an external extractor like the ones found on all other stainless slide P22x-series guns. I haven't even handled one in person but hopefully this will put the extraction issues to bed.
- The second P220ST I got (in 2006) had multiple failures to go into battery. After 550 rounds, I sent it back. I instead began using a P220R (which had the same type slide) and had two stoppages in about 4,500 rounds. If not for costs of ammo and mag capacity, I probably would have kept carrying it. It ran very well and was, of course, as accurate as I could ever hope to be with a handgun.
- My personal experience with the SAO mechanism was negative; I personally wouldn't use one.
- The P220, as many have said, is an almost magically accurate pistol.
- The mags have also gone through some changes. The original 7rd mags were fine. Then there was a demand for 8rd, so the first bandaid was to shove eight rounds into the 7rd tube; that was a disaster. Then a slightly extended genuine 8rd magazine was created. It worked fine for standard pressure ammo and some (not all) +p ammo. The real problem was that the top round would move forward under recoil, and the mags would not drop free if the gun had been fired. SIG didn't think this was important enough to change when Ernest Langdon and I raised the issue in early 2003. Once the JCP program (SOCOM .45) picked up speed, some military people commented to SIG that the failure of the mags to drop free might be a problem and so suddenly everyone was running around screaming "Why didn't someone warn us about this sooner!"
SIG then redesigned the 8rd mags with a little dimple below the feed lips to keep the top round in place. This also resolved issues that some departments, such as Henricho Co. VA, were having (Henricho still switched to .40-cal Glocks, though, as the fix didn't happen soon enough).
- FWIW, I've found the factory 10rd magazines to be as reliable and durable as the 8rd.
- Prior to the HK45 and M&P45, the P220 would have been my first pic in a forty-five. A random box-stock P220 is certainly more reliable than a random box-stock 1911. While it may need more attention and TLC than a P226 in 9mm, it requires less than a 1911.
- When I test-fired the first M&P45 prototype in the summer of '06, I immediately sent my boss at SIG an email from my Blackberry that ended with, "We're in big trouble."
I would have to say that I've probably seen more P220-carrying agencies switch to another brand over the past six years, though, than have switched away from any other SIG model. I don't think that's all because of reliability/durability issues, but certainly that was the case in some instances.
Reading back through this, I realized I forgot to mention the first P220 I ever owned, which was bought years before I got into the firearms industry. I don't have the records in front of me, but that gun (which used the old style slide with the new upgraded frame and hammer) failed at around 2,500 rounds I want to say (give or take maybe 1k). The hammer rebound spring broke and dislodged itself, shutting the gun down. It was a quick fix for an armorer (which I was not, at the time).
