Sig 357, 40 and Storm lake revisited

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Rick James45, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. Rick James45

    Rick James45

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    Hi folks,

    First, all this is Gen 3. I only own Gen 3s.

    I posted a while back about my G23 with Storm Lake 357 sig conversion barrel and how please I was. I am still pleased with this conversion.

    So I bought a SL 357 Sig for my G22. So did my buddy. All Gen 3

    Today we were Chronoing our standard match stuff and for giggles ran the 357 conversations in the mix. Interesting the G22s of mine and my buddy where pretty much identical. Spot on. What was really interesting is the Ft/#s energy between the Sig, 40 and I will toss in 9mm data.

    The Sig G22 data is with Lawman 125 grain @ $17 at box 50. The 40 and 9mm data are reloads with Blue Bullets. The G34 and G35 are Both OEM.

    Again, I think the 357 Sig is very interesting. Also, just looking the data over, the whole 40/9 debate does raise my eyebrow. I am not a ballistics genius or do I work in a morgue. I have to ask, how much does Ft/Energy verses the general hole one makes is a difference? Too me the 357 Sig would seem to be the heat, but what do I know.

    Attached PDFs are the results.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Mike-M

    Mike-M

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    FWIW, you should be able to get much higher velocities and energies from 357SIG. An OEM G31 barrel firing Underwood 357SIG 125-gr JHP will produce MV=1550 ft/s and ME=670 ft•lbf or better. That's a very significant 200 ft•lbf greater that what you report getting from your loads.

    I always recommend Glock OEM 357SIG barrels.

    Your data is neatly displayed in your pdf files, but muzzle energy is not measured in units of "ft/lbs". That is a physically nonsensical combination of units. Energy is expressed in feet (ft) times pounds-force (lbf), or ft•lbf.
     
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  3. Phelen_Kell

    Phelen_Kell

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    Glock 31 (all OEM) usually has higher velocity vs aftermarket barrels.

    When people poo poo the 357 round, I tell the story my brother told me (most agencies around him hate him for switching his department to it and say that they should all be 9mm) he always tells them to stand over there. I'm going to shoot you in the body armor with your 9mm round then I will shoot you in the body armor with my 357SIG. Tell me which one you prefer to carry after that. :)
     
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  4. Mr Meeseeks

    Mr Meeseeks

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    It is.
     
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  5. sig357fan

    sig357fan

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    Rick,
    the data you posted is more of an apples to oranges comparison as none of the cartridges have been loaded to their velocity potential and 55 grains in bullet weight between the 9mm/357 and the 40 is a pretty big difference.

    do a comparison between the cartages loaded to their velocity potential with similar bullet weights in stock Glock barrels and you'll see a different picture, may even get you to reevaluate 9mm vs 40.
     
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  6. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    The 357 Sig has 20% more energy than 9mm and because it comes by increased velocity means a 20% greater shock value. That's 20% more energy + 20% more shock which by my math totals at least 40% more fight stopping efficiency. This is important as the sooner a gun fight can be ended the less chance of being hit, this is especially true if multiple assailants are involved. Your brother made a good choice in handguns.
     
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  7. Rick James45

    Rick James45

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    The chrono software made the PDFs, so evidently the Competition Electronics thought it was important to put in the report. I really don't know. I think that is a good point about if it is valid. Check this article out.

    http://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/addressing-the-foot-pound-fallacy/83388#

    The lawman ammo I tested was about the weakest ammo around. THAT is why I though it was so interesting to me. I am sure the better SD ammo out there would really be something. So don't poo poo the SL barrels.

    What else is interesting, it seems the 9 and 40 are in their Apples world while the 357 is in the Orange land. A different Animal. That is why I choose to share the data to show this difference.

    Yes on the 40, it is not loaded to its potential. The 9mm is a bit closer to box ammo. In fact I will be reducing this a tiny bit for it is a game playing load.

    In general, you are just watching this redneck becoming a fan of the the 357 Sig cartridge. My Every day carry is 40, but that may change.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  8. Mahalo_.357sig

    Mahalo_.357sig #787 Top Gun .357sig

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    Welcome to what I classify the best overall cartridge on the market.
     
  9. LostinTexas

    LostinTexas Exploring Alternate Routes

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    Nice charts, but it would help if you had the bullet on them, if you do, my apologies, I just missed it.
    Those loads seemed slow, but I guess some missed the 357Sig was factory loading, FWIW.
    People here and in other places scoff at energy. Then debate MV and bullet weight,,,,,,,,the formula for energy. :crazy:
    I look for that because, energy is what moves things, drives things and breaks things. It doesn't matter how fast something gets there if it doesn't have the energy to get the job does in target. People talk momentum, I don't know if it is the same thing or just an internet term, but they describe the results of the energy of a round.
    All this to say, this adds up to the ability to make a hole. That is what pistol rounds do, and about all they do in reality. The bigger and deeper the better. Just to add some mud to the water, velocity isn't always your friend. Too much and you get over expansion and inadequate penetration. It is a balancing act for sure with expanding ammo.
    AH,the things that keep us awake at night. LOL
     
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  10. Rick James45

    Rick James45

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    Ah, the 9mm and 40 bullets are Blue Bullets and absolutely only meant for game playing. I figured the Lawman stuff is range ammo at best. This is what makes it interesting to me. I have here two rounds I am trying to make as weak as possible while maintaining the game requirements of PF minor/major. Then I have the cheap/weak lawman stuff that kicks the ass of the other two. Throw in the fact the G22 / 357 Sig shorter barrel verses the G34/35 longer barrel makes me more impressed with the 357 sig.

    This brings another fun point. In my little world we are very tied to Power Factor. My 40 game playing loads beat the 357 sig in the above case when it comes to PF. However, in the Ft# thing, the 357 is superior. It's just data points, right?

    I will be cooking up some "real" 357 sig loads in the near future. I like to gets some factory SD loads to test and then model my reloads off the results. I pretty much have been happy with Hornady loads in the 9/40. I will look into their offerings for the 357 sig and find what I like.

    For note; the Lawman is advertised @ 1325, so my test data in the SL barrel is pretty close. From my LIMITED experience with the 3 SL barrels, I don't perceive them as being slow.
     
  11. Mahalo_.357sig

    Mahalo_.357sig #787 Top Gun .357sig

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    I rock my G31 w/G35 357 barrel everyday I also use it in my G22
     

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  12. Rick James45

    Rick James45

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    Who's barrel is that? With the grooves?
     
  13. Phelen_Kell

    Phelen_Kell

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    Maybe a Lonewolf Alphawolf barrel?