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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I started to see this stuff available and the 180gr JHP is out of stock, thought this would make a good test for my G29 gen4 that just came back from the factory. I don't have ballistics gel but an ample supply of water jugs and plywood! Haven't seen any testing of this cartridge so I volunteered.

Box Specs: 200gr @ 1060FPS (I expect 20-60FPS less than that from my G29).
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Accuracy is surprisingly good, about 2" at 25yds with a 10rd group.
Test setup: 1 water jug followed by one 2x6 then 6 layers of 1/2" plywood.

Shot 1: 4 layers of denim covering jug; Complete passthrough, stopped at last sheet of plywood. Bullet failed to expand with extensive penetration, hollow point clogged with wood fibers. This is typical with vcrowns in any caliber, denim just isn't compatible with this bullet design.
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Shot 2(no denim): stopped in the 2x6 immediately behind the jug. Jacket/core separation, but wow that jacket is huge! Instant expansion and minimal overpenetration. I would say somewhere in the range of 14-16" of ballistics gel. I didn't expect it to stop so soon judging by the heavier than average weight/SD. Reminds me of a golden saber. Recoil was LESS compared to my practice ammo, blazer brass 180gr FMJ.
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I wouldn't hesitate to carry these for normal woods defense, not a good choice for urban defense IMHO.

If anyone could test these from a longer barrel (and possibly gelatin), it would be much appreciated.
 

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I would think with a bit more vel in a longer bbl it would be more consistent. Next time you might try 2-3 water jugs or better still, wetpack or gel. Thx for the test.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I would think with a bit more vel in a longer bbl it would be more consistent. Next time you might try 2-3 water jugs or better still, wetpack or gel. Thx for the test.
I honestly don't see any difference in expansion using wetpack or extra jugs, my setup is something I've developed over the years as a constant. Comparing to gel tests, I have extrapolated that anything sticking in or penetrating the wood past the jug is approx. 12" of gel or greater. Thank you for the input.
 

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^^^ I doubt that. Watch the video. He's using a longer barrel and the hotter 180 gr. V-Crown ammo....and he's barely getting 14" expansion. I don't see how you can extrapolate anything using scrap lumber and milk jugs.

 

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I started to see this stuff available and the 180gr JHP is out of stock, thought this would make a good test for my G29 gen4 that just came back from the factory. I don't have ballistics gel but an ample supply of water jugs and plywood! Haven't seen any testing of this cartridge so I volunteered.

Box Specs: 200gr @ 1060FPS (I expect 20-60FPS less than that from my G29).
View attachment 1079737
Accuracy is surprisingly good, about 2" at 25yds with a 10rd group.
Test setup: 1 water jug followed by one 2x6 then 6 layers of 1/2" plywood.

Shot 1: 4 layers of denim covering jug; Complete passthrough, stopped at last sheet of plywood. Bullet failed to expand with extensive penetration, hollow point clogged with wood fibers. This is typical with vcrowns in any caliber, denim just isn't compatible with this bullet design. View attachment 1079725
View attachment 1079724

Shot 2(no denim): stopped in the 2x6 immediately behind the jug. Jacket/core separation, but wow that jacket is huge! Instant expansion and minimal overpenetration. I would say somewhere in the range of 14-16" of ballistics gel. I didn't expect it to stop so soon judging by the heavier than average weight/SD. Reminds me of a golden saber. Recoil was LESS compared to my practice ammo, blazer brass 180gr FMJ. View attachment 1079727
View attachment 1079726
I wouldn't hesitate to carry these for normal woods defense, not a good choice for urban defense IMHO.

If anyone could test these from a longer barrel (and possibly gelatin), it would be much appreciated.
Been thinking about that very load. I have a Glock 29sf with KKM barrel. I use 150gr DPX type ammo now (just 1050 fps but that is fine for street carry) My 29 loves 200 grain bullets.

Double Tap makes a 200gr JHP they say it gets 1250 from a 5 inch barrel. DT says 1195 from a 3.8 inch Glock 29.. I'd be tempted to try it if.... ammo was just not as expensive as it is! I really hate $1+ a bullet ammo!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
^^^ I doubt that. Watch the video. He's using a longer barrel and the hotter 180 gr. V-Crown ammo....and he's barely getting 14" expansion. I don't see how you can extrapolate anything using scrap lumber and milk jugs.

A longer barrel and lighter weight non-bonded bullet will typically give you less penetration and more expansion. The heavier 200gr Vcrown has a higher sectional density and therefore penetrates more than the 180gr version. I have tested the 180gr vcrown from my g29, more damage to the initial jug and about the same penetration as the 200gr. Propelling the same JHP slower causes it to either not expand or penetrate deeper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Been thinking about that very load. I have a Glock 29sf with KKM barrel. I use 150gr DPX type ammo now (just 1050 fps but that is fine for street carry) My 29 loves 200 grain bullets.

Double Tap makes a 200gr JHP they say it gets 1250 from a 5 inch barrel. DT says 1195 from a 3.8 inch Glock 29.. I'd be tempted to try it if.... ammo was just not as expensive as it is! I really hate $1+ a bullet ammo!
It's been my experience that DT really fudges their velocity numbers. I'd go with underwood 200gr XTP/gold dot if anything. My G29 is for hiking/hunting so I don't have a problem spending $1+ knowing it might either fill the freezer or save me from dangerous game.
 

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Been thinking about that very load. I have a Glock 29sf with KKM barrel. I use 150gr DPX type ammo now (just 1050 fps but that is fine for street carry) My 29 loves 200 grain bullets.

Double Tap makes a 200gr JHP they say it gets 1250 from a 5 inch barrel. DT says 1195 from a 3.8 inch Glock 29.. I'd be tempted to try it if.... ammo was just not as expensive as it is! I really hate $1+ a bullet ammo!
I've met Mike personally. Double Tap makes great ammo, but I have yet to realize their velocity claims in any of my 10mm pistols. Extremely accurate and reliable yes, 200grains at 1250, no.
 

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Double Taps velocity "claims" are pure B.S. and McNett is a chiseler and
a liar. I bought 500 rounds of DT a few months ago, and the only reason
I did was because I got it for $0.60 a round. I use Underwood for my SD
needs, as they speak TRUTH.

I've tested DT 10mm ammo velocity, and it's WAY under their stinking,
Commie LIES. Go to HELL McNett and Double Tap.
 

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No offense but, you're never going to realize the power of the 10mm until you start reloading.
All the factory jacketed stuff, (except Underwood) the only bullets you should be putting through your GLOCK, is slow as molasses in January.
Those 200gr. bullets should be leaving your GLOCK at no less than 1200 fps.
 
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JABRONI AUTIST
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No offense but, you're never going to realize the power of the 10mm until you start reloading.
All the factory jacketed stuff, (except Underwood) the only bullets you should be putting through your GLOCK, is slow as molasses in January.
Those 200gr. bullets should be leaving your GLOCK at no less than 1200 fps.
Same could be said of any caliber, why bother with mass produced .45 or .40 or 9mm when you can reload them to the max or at the very least go with Underwood? I personally like a cartridge that is versatile and if that means I carry around a load "socially" that isn't "full power" that's a-okay with me. I can leave the hot stuff for the woods. I'm not sure there's a mainstream 10mm 180gr that averages 1200 fps from a G20 let alone a 29, definitely not a 200gr.
 

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Same could be said of any caliber, why bother with mass produced .45 or .40 or 9mm when you can reload them to the max or at the very least go with Underwood? I personally like a cartridge that is versatile and if that means I carry around a load "socially" that isn't "full power" that's a-okay with me. I can leave the hot stuff for the woods. I'm not sure there's a mainstream 10mm 180gr that averages 1200 fps from a G20 let alone a 29, definitely not a 200gr.
Ok but we're talking about 10mm and as I stated, most if not all over the counter 10mm is under powered. More like .40 extra to me.
I don't buy a .357 and then shoot .38 special through it either. I don't carry a 10mm for personal protection, I carry a 9mm.
Your post doesn't make sense to me.
 

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OK, I'll be the contrarian here, but if we're talking about expanding JHPs, you really don't need greater than .40 S&W velocities. 99% of the .400 diameter JHPs are designed to expand at .40 S&W velocities. So, what we get when we push them faster often isn't the performance we're after, but something significantly less. Pushing these bullets at true 10mm velocities leads to over expansion, jacket separation, and often times fragmentation, all of which lead to under penetration (not to mention unnecessary recoil). Until someone develops a JHP designed specifically for the 10mm, there isn't really an advantage nuclear velocities. XTPs are really the only exception I can think of to that rule, and of course some of the soft point hunting rounds.

Where the 10mm really shines for me is with a heavier XTP or some sort of a solid, whether its a wide front FMJ or a hard cast, all in front of Longshot or Power Pistol. If I'm carrying it for 2 legged defense, I've got no problem with a little slower velocities.
 

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Ok but we're talking about 10mm and as I stated, most if not all over the counter 10mm is under powered. More like .40 extra to me.
I don't buy a .357 and then shoot .38 special through it either. I don't carry a 10mm for personal protection, I carry a 9mm.
Your post doesn't make sense to me.
Simply making a point that not everybody desires their 200gr JHP to be moving at 1200 fps minimum, it's not really going to kill any deader than one moving 1100 fps or even 1050 fps but it will recoil more, which in a social situation could be consideration. My other point was that all ammo from major manufacturers is watered down to a certain degree, the 10mm isn't the only cartridge to suffer from this and to add, watered down isn't always a bad thing, as I mentioned some could see that as versatility.
 

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OK, I'll be the contrarian here, but if we're talking about expanding JHPs, you really don't need greater than .40 S&W velocities. 99% of the .400 diameter JHPs are designed to expand at .40 S&W velocities. So, what we get when we push them faster often isn't the performance we're after, but something significantly less. Pushing these bullets at true 10mm velocities leads to over expansion, jacket separation, and often times fragmentation, all of which lead to under penetration (not to mention unnecessary recoil). Until someone develops a JHP designed specifically for the 10mm, there isn't really an advantage nuclear velocities. XTPs are really the only exception I can think of to that rule, and of course some of the soft point hunting rounds.

Where the 10mm really shines for me is with a heavier XTP or some sort of a solid, whether its a wide front FMJ or a hard cast, all in front of Longshot or Power Pistol. If I'm carrying it for 2 legged defense, I've got no problem with a little slower velocities.
You won't find me in disagreement, I've been saying the same thing for years. Some people automatically associate more velocity with better performance but it can lead to worse performance. Sure you can pull 180gr HST's and load them in a nuclear 10mm but what your'e going to get is a grenade with poor penetration because the bullet isn't designed for that speed. From what I've seen personally the XTP is a tough design but also can show signs of shedding weight when pushed to upper end .40 velocities, which has caused me to ask the question, why I would I ever need a 10mm? Don't get me wrong, I like the 10mm and have had many but I legitimately can't think of anything the 10mm would work on that a warmer .40 S&W wouldn't work on just as well, but from a smaller package.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I would think with a bit more vel in a longer bbl it would be more consistent. Next time you might try 2-3 water jugs or better still, wetpack or gel. Thx for the test.
Just did a retest with 6 water jugs, different result. Went through to the third jug and left a huge dent in the back. No jacket separation this time.
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