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Shotguns

Discussion in 'Hunting, Fishing & Camping' started by sorridsky, Nov 28, 2002.

  1. sorridsky

    sorridsky

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    Hello,
    I am building a shopping list, to pruchase a couple of shotguns.
    Being new the game, I need some advice.

    I want to do alot of clay pigeon shooting, but also hunt pigeon, rabbits, and do some waterfowling, and maybe phesant.

    the first thing I wonderd is do i really need a gun that can chamber 3 1/2" cartridges? alot of people in waterfowling seem to use these or a 10 bore, is that really nessacery?
    and If i did go that route, would the recoil from a pump start to take its toll after a while, would a semi be the way to go to handle the 3 1/2"?

    I have decided on a benelli 28” Raffaello Crio for clay shooting, and maybe phesant.

    but then, I'm torn about the hunting gun(s) I want, The list is endless, each with there pro's and cons.
    I was thinking a:

    26" remington 870 super magnum express synthetic, or
    24" Beretta Extrema camo
    24" Benelli super black eagle camo
    24" Benelli M1 super 90 Camo
    24" Beretta AL391 Urika Camo

    the top 3 can handle 3 1/2"
    The berettas i understand are better guns, swifter and lighter recoil, becuase of the gas system, but for a field gun, cleaning them is horrible, where as the benelli system is a very simple and easy to clean and very reliable.

    What are you opinions?
    The other possibility is i could, buy the crio, and the remington pump, then buy one of the auto's mentioned above, for wood shooting, and have the remington for waterfowling , do to its superb reliabilty and simple mechanics. (depending on opinions about the 3 1/2")
    But which S/A should it be?
     
  2. 357glocker

    357glocker

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    Go with a browning gold fusion 12 ga 26". Lightest shotgun with the most factory features plus a rebate offer. This year I shot a skeet league with it. Absolutely love this shotgun. Actually thinking about a 20 ga counterpart!!
     

  3. mpol777

    mpol777 Feral Member

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    3.5" has come about because of steel shot. personally i would forgo the steel and spend the money on a substitute non-toxic shot. steel shot sucks, plain and simple.

    i also don't see a need for 3.5" shells. some say they are needed for goose hunting or long range duck hunting. i've seen these in action. shooting a goose that's 40-50 yards above the ground, might make a great shot, but is wasteful. when goose falls from that distance and hits water or cornfield they turn into a giant contusion.

    3" shells are more than enough for geese and ducks if shot right. by right i mean the type of shot. there are 2 reasons not to shoot ducks and geese that are flying straight at you. one the pellets will most probably bounce off the feathers, especially if it's late in the season. secondly if it does get through you just shot up the best part of the bird.

    the 26" rem 870 express mag is a great pump gun. i've had mine for 12 years now and it's worked great on all sorts of game. i can't speak for the other models, but they are all from good manufacturers.

    i believe you will be better served with a 26" or greater barrel for the type of shooting you want to do. generally speaking 24"-26" barrels are for hunting in tighter cover and for the quick low flying upland game (quail, grouse, snipe, woodcock, etc) 26"-28" are more favorable for waterfowl where you are making longer shots with longer sweeping motions. 28"-30" are generally used for skeet and trap. none of this is a hard and fast rule. you can shoot trap with a 18.5" barrel if you want, but these are the norms. everyone has their own preferences.

    i'd go to a shop that has the models you want and pick them all up. see what barrel length swings well for you. shotgunning has a lot to do with feel, so if the length of pull on a certain gun is off or something feels wrong, then you'll want something else.
     
  4. PlasticGuy

    PlasticGuy

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    I do a lot of bird hunting. A lot. I started out hunting mostly waterfowl. What I found was that a 3" 12 guage was perfect. Specifically, I got a 26" Remington 870 magnum (NOT the supermag). It is light enough to be quick on small ducks, but powerful enough to knock down geese. More power is not needed, and will only increase weight, cost, and recoil.

    The last year or two I have gotten into a lot more upland bird hunting. My waterfowl gun was a bit too heavy and a bit more powerful than I needed. I picked up a 20 guage 870 lightweight with a 26 inch barrel. It's just perfect. All of the controls are where I'm used to reaching for them, and it's much quicker for flushing quail.

    This pair of shotguns has served me very well. I have more than enough money to get anything I want (including a good over-under), but I can't really think of a way to improve performance over what I already have. When I miss, it's my fault and not the guns.
     
  5. LovemyGlock's

    LovemyGlock's

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    I have to admit I am a big fan of Winchester shotguns. I own a SX2 waterfowl edition and 3 different versions of the 1300. I hunt alot of waterfowl and I agree 3.5 is not practical and if you shoot it in a pump it will kill you dead. LOL. Think about a Winchester less money and the same performace or better performance from my experiance. And yes steel shot SUCKS!!!!!
     
  6. Michigun

    Michigun Miss Michigan?

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    sorridsky, "beware of the man that has only one gun"... I can't think of a better quote for shotgun hunting & hunting oriented target sports! I could purchase several other shotguns if I wanted as well, but I choose to hunt & target shoot with only one. All I wanted to say was; find a good all-around shotgun & shoot it exclusively if you want to get good & be consistent after that!

    I chose a Beretta 390 years ago. I like auto's myself & always recommend them if money will allow. You get what you pay for in auto shotguns, just keep that in mind.
     
  7. MrMunster

    MrMunster

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    Learn to shoot and you won't need a 12ga.....

    I've taken ducks, geese, pheasant, quail, turkey, rabbit, deer, et.al. with nothing more than 2.75" 20ga shells.

    (#8 skeet loads are great for quail and WILL kill a turkey provided you are close and hit it in the head. For pheasants, I've never needed anything heavier than #6, but I hunt with some pretty good dogs...)

    If I had to recommend ONE gun, it would be a Browning Citori in 20ga with 26" barrels. If I had to recommend two, I would add a 20ga Remington 870 WINGMASTER (not the crappy express!) to the list. You can add a rifled barrel later, if you wish, but my smoothbore shoots 3-5" groups at 100yds with rifled slugs.
     
  8. Michigun

    Michigun Miss Michigan?

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    Wow... that's a pretty bold statement.......

    I guess we could go down to a .410 as well then?

    Bears & whitetails have been taken with .22LR's as well, but you won't see many recommendations for them.

    Price & availability alone kill the other gauges -v- the 12. Lets be realistic here.
     
  9. noway

    noway

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    {Learn to shoot and you won't need a 12ga.....}

    The way I see it 12ga vsr 20ga, all are great but no 20ga shells is able to tap the delivery that the MAX 2.75-3.5" 12ga shells are capable of.

    i.e

    ( I don't see any 20ga load available to push any 1 5/8oz or higher shot )

    12ga is nice cause it gives you more options and make shooting much easier.
    If you perfer 20ga then all means stay with the 20 and let us non-shooters that need more lessons and skills use the 12ga.
     
  10. Screaming .357G

    Screaming .357G 598ci big block

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    I use a 10 ga and I must be one of the few who love them.

    Im not saying that a 12 ga wont do the job 99% of the time.
    But when you compare even a 3 1/2 inch 12 with a 3 1/2 inch 10 ga back to back there is a diffrence.
    With bird shot and slugs my 10 ga will always reach a bit further and seems to hit a bit harder than a 12ga with 3 1/2 inch shells.

    I use my 10 ga with a extra barrel with a extra full choke for turkey and for all long range shotgun hunting on large game I use a smooth bore slug/buckshot combo.
    For a single shot kill it has worked for me every time period.

    Any time you plan to get larger game at longer range I would suggest a 10 ga.
    Small birds it is over kill but all the biger stuff it works great.


    I will not shoot a 10 ga for skeet shooting as it will leave you sore after a while;).
    For all skeet shooting I use a 12 ga auto loader.
     
  11. LovemyGlock's

    LovemyGlock's

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    If you can't decide between a 12 and a 20 just go with a 16 ga. I grew up clay shooting, killing pheasants, rabbits and racoons with a break action single shot.;a
     
  12. noway

    noway

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    {If you can't decide between a 12 and a 20 just go with a 16 ga. }

    I like that. I heard something like that from a guy that shot at the next position with his son on a previous dove hunt ( both had remingtons in 16ga )

    They told me the 16ga was pick to split the difference from the 12 and 20. They both walked away after reaching bag limit (12) well before the sun started to drop shooting IIRC 1oz of #8 loads. Not bad for a 3 hour shooting spree.
     
  13. MrMunster

    MrMunster

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    Yes it is. I intended it to be.

    If you were only going to shoot clays that might be reasonable, but the .410 is too small to cleanly kill small game with regularity. But then again, if you learn to shoot, you won't need a 12ga on a clays range either as the challenge will be gone.

    A .22 is underpowered for the game you list, but a 20ga is not. Using your argument, I might as well get that .50 cal because my .22-250 isn't enough gun for shooting coyotes. Of the deer I've shot with a 20ga, none have gone more than 200yds before dropping dead; most dropped where the were stood.

    You can buy 20ga for the same price as 12 (and reload them for less) so this is an invalid argument.

    I'm not arguing that the 12ga can't push a heavier load faster. I'm saying that if you learn to shoot, know the limitations of your abilities and those of your ammunition, and practice you won't need to buy the "bigger, better, faster, more" stuff to make you appear to be a better shot.

    LMG & noway--- Glad to see there are some other 16ga fans around! I own 4 16ga Citoris; 2 from the mid-80's run and 2 new ones made last year. (See www.browningguncenter.com for info on the new ones.)
     
  14. noway

    noway

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    No I wouldn't call myself a fan but have looked at the 16ga awhile back and felt all avenues lead to the 12ga being more efficient all around.

    As a matter of fact DaveMC over at TFL has a good post about the 16ga and the histroy that this gauge have taken in the sports/hunting arena for shotguns. I've only known of 2 person that today still use 16ga SG & never own a 12ga or 20ga ( I myself would not invest in on one )


    I totally disagree with the statement that make it seems like all 12ga users are over gun and lack good shooting skills and should limit themselves to a 20ga or other gauage/caliber.( you might haven't said those exact words but that might be the impression picked up by others ) I shoot a pretty mean 12ga and if I later on want a challenge I might buy a 20ga. But for right now the 12ga has been part of my inventory for the last 15yrs and will stay that way.


    btw: I've found 20ga shells to be slightly more than 12ga ammo and w/less options. The same holds true with reloading accessories and items. The only area that I see the 12vrs 20 being equal are with availbility of foster and fully lead slugs. Can't say the same with sabot since I don't recalled a big selection for sabot style slugs in 20ga.The 20ga in all real purpose is still limited by it's bore/shell size so 1 1/8-1/4oz of shot is the top you can get out of the 20ga, where the 12ga just gives alot more and nearly overlaps what the minimum 10ga payloads are. the statement about them being less to reload is true if you don't price availbility of new or once-fired shells and is only true since they require less charge and less shot ( 3/4 thru 1 1/8 oz typical vrs 7/8 thru 1 7/8 for the 12 )and wads between the 2 are about the same in price.

    I've myself find it easier to bring down a dove with a 1 1/8oz shot than with a typical 7/8oz-1oz 20ga shot and the 3" shells in the 20ga kick just as hard as the magnum 12ga 2.75"-3" shells IMHO. Also the 12ga give me more room to make shots and hides my error in shot selection. The same argument could be made with the .410. I use a 410 once for a dove and quail hunt. I though it was cool until I notice I couldn't select shots at great distance and it was hard to get a good lead and drop doves with the 410. The 410shells are way harder to find new ammo and for the reloader once-fired
    shells are about as easy to find as a texas horny toad. Everybody I know that have 410s holds on to their shells like they where gold so less are available for sell on the market.


    "It all boils down as to what you like and need" but i would never consider a 12ga shooters as being under-skilled or overpower for most hunting encounters that requires the SG nor hiding their shooting skills with using a bigger ga.
     
  15. Michigun

    Michigun Miss Michigan?

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    I said price & availability there chief.

    It is a "valid argument" sir, to say otherwise is nonsense.

    Now that's funny!:) I don't know you, you don't know me, however it sounds like you feel for some reason that you're better & have more shooting/hunting experience then I? Come on dude…

    It almost sounds like you’ve been picked on for your gauge choice a few times in life & have now developed a severe grudge. Take it easy; I’m not the guy at the range or hunting grounds that gives one grief about their weapon/caliber fetishes. I’ll give you crap if you suck &/or a “crippler”, but nothing else.

    The original “tread starter” asked about 12 gauge shotguns.

    By the way, I own a 410, a few 20’s & a few 16 gauges… it’s not about “bragging rights” for me, it’s about being efficient while hunting. All my shotgunning is geared for hunting.
     
  16. sorridsky

    sorridsky

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    thanks for the info guys,
    I want a 12ga really, I'm a pretty big lad, so recoil isnt a really an issue, and in my small town, 12ga is all thats really stocked. I'm not a bad shot, but why move down a gauge, when I have no reason to?
    may as well get the most shot out of a gun i can comfortably, and it be the cheapist!
    the last thing I want to do is to risk unessacerly injuring an animal to cut down on my shoulder brusing.
    I completely agree about sticking with one gun, and in the beginning I think i will, and when funds allow, buy some more.
    To start i think its either going to be a beretta 391 urika synthetic, or a benelli crio.
    But still undecided between the two! I'll proboly just buy which ever is avalible second hand first.
    thanks again everyone
     
  17. Michigun

    Michigun Miss Michigan?

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    Sorridsky, you can’t go wrong with either of those 2 shotguns! Pick the one that fits you best & you'll be happier.
     
  18. noway

    noway

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    also don't forget about the Beretta Extrema. I had a chance to handle one a few nights ago and that is one sweet gun. The feel and design of the stock and forearm topped with the 26" barrel was very,very nice.


    If I where buying new and looking for a gas-auto, this would be the SG I would buy.