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Discussion Starter #1
I started with a G17 that I felt very good about shooting and believed I could hit pretty well. Traded up to a G22 because I wanted the larger caliber shot "just in case." I haven't been as accurate with the G22 as I was with the G17 but I attribute that to lack of range time. It's been over a year since I've really focused on shooting my handgun because I have been focusing on my marksmanship with a rifle.

I bought a G23 for EDC because it was smaller and a better CCW. I didn't like it because it was/seemed worn out: the slide wouldn't lock back and both the slide and slide release seemed excessively worn. I couldn't shoot it well and in my mind I felt that the pistol was "shot out" and I needed a new one to improve. Duh...So, I traded it for a new G27 which I was able to shoot for the first time today. I've added grip extensions to all magazines to allow for all four fingers to have a solid purchase while shooting.

The temperature was 52° with clear skies and light winds at 1-3 mph. While everyone else at the range was shooting steel, I was shooting paper because I wanted to see where I was hitting. I was shooting 165gr Winchester FMJ range ammo at a silhouette target at 8 yards and the first few shots almost missed the paper. I convinced myself to calm down and apply the basics that I've learned from reading on the internet about proper grip, stance and sight picture.

I was having real trouble holding onto the G27 in the "preferred grip" of two hands presented by Travis Haley of Haley Strategic from youtube. I try and try but I can't get my hands to form a solid weld to the pistol as has been suggested. I adjusted a number of different times but still felt the recoil was pulling the pistol out of my hands during the recoil phase. I attempted to compensate for my lack of secure grip by placing my left hand index finger over the front of the trigger guard and this didn't work at all because I was unable to keep that hold consistently.

The only thing that worked was to return my grip to how I was shooting before I traded my G17: pistol butt plate seated in my left palm with the left hand fingers grasping the fingers of my right hand from the bottom up, over the front of the fingers of my right hand. This grip afforded the most consistent stability allowing me to return the sights to target without resetting my grip after each shot like milking the grip.

My groups were stringing across the target from right to left consistently four inches to the left and two inches low. I was able to tighten up the group by moving my finger on the trigger to the second joint and gripping the pistol quite a bit tighter with my right hand. The group went from 8" to 4" and I reduced the difference between my point of aim and point of impact by almost six inches scoring several very nice single shots in a tighter group that had begun to round up from the horizontal string I started with...but I'm not comfortable with these results.

I shot approximately 300 rounds and improved significantly over the course of a few hours. I took my time and examined what I was doing using the frequent breaks to really think about things.

My question for the experts is this: is there a "best grip" for consistency and how do you hold it?

I realize that I need more practice and will need to maintain my skill through regular shooting. I have not remained current over the last year and will need to change my shooting schedule to incorporate pistol practice as well as rifle practice concurrently.
 

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try getting the Pierce Plus 1 extension(it looks like an extension of the gun).That, and using 180grain cartridges worked wonders for my accuracy, immediately. It's also more comfortable to shoot.
 
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try getting the Pierce Plus 1 extension(it looks like an extension of the gun).That, and using 180grain cartridges worked wonders for my accuracy, immediately. It's also more comfortable to shoot.
I have the Pierce grip extensions already for all three magazines. I do have some 180gr ammo in my case and I'll try that on my next range outing. It is my intention to continue to practice regularly with this pistol as it is my CCW
 

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Practice, practice, practice. I shoot all my semi-autos with my index finger on the front of the trigger guard. I pull straight back with it and tight grip my grip hand. It puts my off hand thumb farther out as a guide. Probably unorthodox, but it works for me.
 

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Practice, practice, practice. I shoot all my semi-autos with my index finger on the front of the trigger guard. I pull straight back with it and tight grip my grip hand. It puts my off hand thumb farther out as a guide. Probably unorthodox, but it works for me.
This was my thinking as well. I know that shooting is a perishable skill and that I've allowed my limited skills to lapse by not shooting regularly. I intend to continue to improve as I increase my range time as well as seek other sources of formal training. I find it interesting to know that you too are using the front of the trigger guard as part of your grip and I will examine this option again. Thanks for your comments; I appreciate your help.
 

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No matter how worn your 23 was, it probably shot very straight. I'm 99% sure that the reason you shot the 22 worse than the 17, and the 23 worse yet than the 22, and the 27 even worse is because you're anticipating recoil and/or jerking the trigger. The recoil you'll feel going from 17 to 22 to 23 to 27 gets progressively worse. No matter how you grip the gun, if you jerk it off the target a split second before it goes off, that's obviously a problem.

I would suggest you have someone else load your magazines for you at the range, and have them put a dummy round in each magazine at a random place in the shot order. You'll see what I mean by anticipating the recoil in short order. It's not something that's easy for every shooter to overcome (it's not for me anyway).
 

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Just to add, it has been my experience that whenever I take someone who is completely new to shooting to the range, I sit them down beforehand and explain all the fundamentals of safety, sight picture, grip, etc, and I tell them that they'll hit the bullseye dead-center on their very first shot, and that the rest will be low. I've very rarely seen anything except that happen, exactly. On that first shot, they don't know what the recoil even feels like, so they don't anticipate anything. After that, their brain remembers and wants to control it. It's just the way we're wired.

The most notable exception I've seen was the 18yo daughter of a co-worker. She took a ton of time between shots, but it was very clear that she was pressing very slowly until it would go off rather than just jerking the trigger like so many do. She was shooting a tight little group with the LCP that I brought, something that's very difficult to do with such a harsh-recoiling gun. That range day was her first time shooting a handgun, and needless to say, I was impressed.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
If I read everything that everyone has written here as well as other threads regarding shooting issues, I'm jerking the trigger and anticipating recoil: two separate issues that will pull the pistol off target before the shot goes off.

I was able to make a 50% improvement in my groups, both tightening the placement as well as eliminating the "stringing", by placing my finger deeper into the trigger just past the first joint as well as tightening my grip but both of these things reflect the idea of attempting to control recoil.

I understand the idea of shooting dummy rounds to teach the shooter about anticipating recoil. I'll have to work on that since I never shoot with anyone else so I don't have anyone else to load mags for me.

I think that I can learn to manage the recoil by simply relaxing into shooting again. It's been months since I've shot my pistol at all and this new pistol gave me butterflies of anticipation and excitement. However, am I correct is my assertion that there is no "right" grip and that what works well, works?
 
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REcoil matters. I shoot a lot, big guns, little guns, 9mm thru 4" 44mag. I don't find the g27 comfortable. So I went G26. I actually shoot it better than my G17, weird, but it seems to fit Better. I have mags with extensions & mags with 0.300" base pads, both allow me to get my little finger on the grip.
For me, full power 40 belongs in a full size gun, JMO. You gain nothing shooting a more powerful gun & not getting good hits. I have moved several new shooters off their G27 or G36 to a G26 or G19. I like bigger calibers, especially in 10rd + states, but when going smaller gun, go smaller caliber for better control.
Index finger on the trigger guard is a no-no, but some persist. My grip is the same for a 5" gun as the G26. Then again I have avg size hands. Big hands, maybe not.
 

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REcoil matters. I shoot a lot, big guns, little guns, 9mm thru 4" 44mag. I don't find the g27 comfortable. So I went G26. I actually shoot it better than my G17, weird, but it seems to fit Better. I have mags with extensions & mags with 0.300" base pads, both allow me to get my little finger on the grip.
For me, full power 40 belongs in a full size gun, JMO. You gain nothing shooting a more powerful gun & not getting good hits. I have moved several new shooters off their G27 or G36 to a G26 or G19. I like bigger calibers, especially in 10rd + states, but when going smaller gun, go smaller caliber for better control.
Index finger on the trigger guard is a no-no, but some persist. My grip is the same for a 5" gun as the G26. Then again I have avg size hands. Big hands, maybe not.
I am a big guy and have big hands but I didn't feel like having the index finger on the trigger guard helped much if at all. I'm going to examine that option. However, I wanted to stay with one caliber for the sake of ammo so I'm going to train with the G27 for a while just to be sure it's not my lost skills from lack of shooting that aren't negatively affecting my overall performance.

I'm not opposed to admitting that I may have made a mistake about trading the G23 and may find myself going backwards, but I really like the way the G27 carries.

I'll be putting more rounds downrange to find out very soon. Thanks again for all the advice here...
 

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However, am I correct is my assertion that there is no "right" grip and that what works well, works?
This is just my opinion, but I would say this is a correct statement. A "better" grip does little more than get the sights back on target faster. It doesn't make the shot itself more accurate.

Along those lines, there's nothing in the world you can do to keep the gun from recoiling. If you're trying to actually STOP recoil from happening (most likely sub-consciously), that's where your anticipation is coming from. You have to let the recoil happen. With the right grip and stance, you aren't consciously pushing down on the gun to get it back on target, you're letting it return on its own after the shot breaks.

All is much easier said than done. I have a lot of practice and I still sometimes struggle with this.
 

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I am a big guy and have big hands but I didn't feel like having the index finger on the trigger guard helped much if at all. I'm going to examine that option. However, I wanted to stay with one caliber for the sake of ammo so I'm going to train with the G27 for a while just to be sure it's not my lost skills from lack of shooting that aren't negatively affecting my overall performance.

I'm not opposed to admitting that I may have made a mistake about trading the G23 and may find myself going backwards, but I really like the way the G27 carries.

I'll be putting more rounds downrange to find out very soon. Thanks again for all the advice here...
Usually placing the index finger on the front of the trigger guard has a negative impact on accuracy. Why you will not see advanced competitive shooters shooting with that grip. Study what the pros do, then try to do that. I can shoot a G27, just not as fast & accurate as a G26. With todays good JHP, there is very little advantage to a 40 in that small platform. Yet plenty of accuracy disadvantages.
You know you could get a 9mm conversion bbl & 9mm mags & practice with the 9mm?? Two guns in one, throw in a 357sig bbl too. The G26/27 platform is quite accurate in good hands. I beat a bunch of guys, shooting full size guns, at the last IDPA match shooting my G26, all the way out to 30yds on some stages.:supergrin:
 
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I have a Glock 27. I carries nice, easy to to forget you have it, BUT it stings my average sized hands. Believe it or not I replaced it with a G29 (10mm). The recoil has from the 29 does not sting my hands near as bad as my 27 does. The 29 is slightly bigger and a lot heaver. It still possible to carry concealed and provides a lot more fire power. Full powered 10mm ammo rocks me back and I must tighten my core to stay on target. I'm not a heavy person. See my avatar.
 

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For me, full power 40 belongs in a full size gun, JMO. You gain nothing shooting a more powerful gun & not getting good hits.
I have always had trouble getting good groups out of my Glock 29. Then, last week, I put a .40 S&W barrel in it. The groups were as tight as anything I ever put up with my Glock 30 SF. I am simply amazed at the effect of getting the recoil into manageable territory.
Here's a write up that I did in part regarding how recoil effects my shooting (Pierce grips, X-Grip adapter for full length magazines, lower recoil, etc).
http://chronosscifi.com/healingHeeling.html
 

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Recoil is something to learn to manage. Why so many LEA are moving back to 9mm & why it is so popular with many civ, it is just easier to shoot well. Especially when talking rapid, good hits. I like power in a handgun, but you have to work at it, especially when you get into things like full power 10mm & the magnums 41 & up.
 

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Ok, fredj338. I've read and respect your posts as I know you shoot a lot of matches and I'm betting you do very well. I see very few pro's do the front trigger guard grip. For some reason, it just comes natural to me. I'm not a pro, by any means, and I shoot a lot here at home. I've tried many times to use a more standard grip, but I just simply do better with the trigger guard grip. Especially with Glocks as they have the perfect spot, with serrations in it, like it was made for that. It also gets my thumb farther out under the slide which sort of becomes a guide. I do very well for defensive shooting which is my goal. With my 26, or my M&P 45C, at 10 yds, I can keep 2" groups shooting rounds about a second apart. Double or triple taps move a little, but still in critical mass. I guess my question for you would be, is it worth trying to change what comes naturally to achieve better results than I get now. At 62 plus, I'm not planning on becoming a competition shooter. I sincerely value your opinion. Thanks for any input. First shot.
 

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If I read everything that everyone has written here as well as other threads regarding shooting issues, I'm jerking the trigger and anticipating recoil: two separate issues that will pull the pistol off target before the shot goes off.

I was able to make a 50% improvement in my groups, both tightening the placement as well as eliminating the "stringing", by placing my finger deeper into the trigger just past the first joint as well as tightening my grip but both of these things reflect the idea of attempting to control recoil.

I understand the idea of shooting dummy rounds to teach the shooter about anticipating recoil. I'll have to work on that since I never shoot with anyone else so I don't have anyone else to load mags for me.

I think that I can learn to manage the recoil by simply relaxing into shooting again. It's been months since I've shot my pistol at all and this new pistol gave me butterflies of anticipation and excitement. However, am I correct is my assertion that there is no "right" grip and that what works well, works?
While in the military, my instructors always say to grip the piece as tight as you are able and let the gun surprise you. Let the gun go off by itself by pulling straight back. Focus on the front sight as clear as you can. The target should be a fuzzy, blurry object or bullseye. Practice dry firing while focusing on the front sight. You'll be able to see if the front sight is moving left or right just as the hammer or striker snaps. BTW, I shoot with both eyes open. Visual acuity and perspective is great. I was good enough to compete at Interservice matches and @ Camp Perry, Ohio. Earn a few points at "leg" matches toward "distinguished" designation.
 

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Have read all the advice given and agree with the practice and other tips. I have one other tip once you have put all this to practice. Try a different ammo. Win 165 gr FMJ was the largest and most inconsistent grouping in my Glock .40s by a wide margin. 180 gr FMJs in Win, Federal Champion or AE, and Magtech were all better. And my G23s really group Federal especially and Federal Champion 180 gr specifically much, much better than Win 165 gr FMJs.

And I am not a Win basher either as the .40 Win 180 was good and Win WB 115 gr or Win NATO are favorites in my G26s.

Many do not, but I have benchrest shot many of these and there are notable differences.
 
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