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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm in Alabama & my state was talking about allowing short barrel rifle's. How do i find out the current on this ? If you were going to build a sbr what is the shortest you would go ? What kind of accuracy can i expect from a 10.5, 11.5 or 12 " barrel ? Wanting to go with BCM, Noveske or LMT. Which is the best bang for my buck ?
 

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As far as your laws go...I have no clue. I do however know that when I stood beside my buddies 10.5 in barrel I thought my eyes were going to pop out of my head. Ok over stated, but the gist is that a 10.5 in barrel is very loud and throws a lot of powder and fire down range. That short of a barrel doesn't give some ammo enough time to burn off, so it comes out as fire and black specks on a close target.

Just my .02 cents.
 

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I'm in Alabama & my state was talking about allowing short barrel rifle's. How do i find out the current on this ? If you were going to build a sbr what is the shortest you would go ? What kind of accuracy can i expect from a 10.5, 11.5 or 12 " barrel ? Wanting to go with BCM, Noveske or LMT. Which is the best bang for my buck ?
Do you plan to suppress the weapon? If so, Id suggest a LWRC M6-A3
in a 10.5-12.5 incher.The adjustable gas/piston system is excellent. I have the 10.5 inch version and its 1.5 inch group gun with or without a can
 

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10mm Philosopher
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I'm in Alabama & my state was talking about allowing short barrel rifle's. How do i find out the current on this ? If you were going to build a sbr what is the shortest you would go ? What kind of accuracy can i expect from a 10.5, 11.5 or 12 " barrel ? Wanting to go with BCM, Noveske or LMT. Which is the best bang for my buck ?
Well, a couple of comments ...

You can get excellent accuracy, given decent ammo, from short barrels. My 10" SBR has proven itself quite accurate out to 300yds, the farthest I've shot it.

But don't confuse accuracy with lethality, which is velocity dependent. Micro-barreled SBRs give up HUGE losses in velocity the shorter you go. This, in turn, sacrifices the projectile's terminal ballistics beyond certain distances. Variables include, e.g., specific barrel length chosen, projectile weight & design (55gn FMJ vs. 75/77gn OTM), projectile velocity, its optimum fragmentation range, etc.

Bottom-line: I went into building mine (on LMT's MRP unit) understanding the limitations of a 10" set-up. Inside structures or carried in a vehicle, it manuvers nicely and is handy and fun. But as a go-to weapon for the real deal, ... I see it as limited to 100yds-and-in. Others here may have a different view of their SBR's effective combat range.



The noise and sideways concussive blast from these shorties virtually begs for a can, but whether you can swing the extra paper work and cash for the second tax stamp on a Form 4 is up to you.

But if you don't suppress it, the next best thing, IMO, is Noveske's "Pig."

Not pretty, but it does work.


Hope this helps ...

:cool:
 

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If this was an SBR state, you'd better believe my home defense carbine would be an SBR. I've got enough time on them to know they kick butt in confined areas. I'd keep it at 11.5" on an AR15. That's what the original carbine gas system was designed for. Anything shorter than that can get finicky in a hurry.

Honestly, if I were to SBR something it would be a 7.62x39mm AK in a Krinkov/Suchka style. The cartridge is more efficient out of a short barrel, and the rifles are still AK reliable even with an 8" barrel.
 

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I too am in AL and hoping/praying for SBRs. Not sure where to go for updates but I think it'll be all over the place if they do allow 'em.

That said there are several good options for SBRs, the typical barrel length are 10.5" and 11.5", BCM also makes a 12.5".

Noveske/LMT use 10.5"
Colt/BCM use 11.5, BCM also makes a 12.5

Read this (granted, it's written by Paul at BCM so I'm sure it's not 100% unbiased but it is good info). Personally I'd probably grab a Colt 6933 or BCM 11.5", although a Noveske 10.5" w/switchblock would be equally cool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, a couple of comments ...

You can get excellent accuracy, given decent ammo, from short barrels. My 10" SBR has proven itself quite accurate out to 300yds, the farthest I've shot it.

But don't confuse accuracy with lethality, which is velocity dependent. Micro-barreled SBRs give up HUGE losses in velocity the shorter you go. This, in turn, sacrifices the projectile's terminal ballistics beyond certain distances. Variables include, e.g., specific barrel length chosen, projectile weight & design (55gn FMJ vs. 75/77gn OTM), projectile velocity, its optimum fragmentation range, etc.

Bottom-line: I went into building mine (on LMT's MRP unit) understanding the limitations of a 10" set-up. Inside structures or carried in a vehicle, it manuvers nicely and is handy and fun. But as a go-to weapon for the real deal, ... I see it as limited to 100yds-and-in. Others here may have a different view of their SBR's effective combat range.



The noise and sideways concussive blast from these shorties virtually begs for a can, but whether you can swing the extra paper work and cash for the second tax stamp on a Form 4 is up to you.

But if you don't suppress it, the next best thing, IMO, is Noveske's "Pig."

Not pretty, but it does work.


Hope this helps ...

:cool:
that's a wiked rifle ! i know i wouldnt win any target shooting matches with a sbr, but for a home defense rifle would it be ok ? The farthest i would plink would be 100 yards. at 20 to 40 yards would a 12.5" sbr ar be lethal ? would it have enough velocity/penetration to stop people or animals ?
 

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that's a wiked rifle ! i know i wouldnt win any target shooting matches with a sbr, but for a home defense rifle would it be ok ? The farthest i would plink would be 100 yards. at 20 to 40 yards would a 12.5" sbr ar be lethal ? would it have enough velocity/penetration to stop people or animals ?
I'm sure it would get the job done. Methinks to tip the odds in your favor it would behoove you to shoot the heaviest bullet you could. I'm not ballistics whiz but I figure, like a .45, since it's moving slower you want more mass. 75gr TAP would probably do the trick.
 

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10mm Philosopher
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that's a wiked rifle !
Thanks. :)

i know i wouldnt win any target shooting matches with a sbr, but for a home defense rifle would it be ok? The farthest i would plink would be 100 yards. at 20 to 40 yards would a 12.5" sbr ar be lethal ? would it have enough velocity/penetration to stop people or animals ?
Working room-to-room inside a house, and for sure at "20 to 40 yards," a 10" or 12.5" SBR can get it done.

I personal wouldn't use my SBR to hunt or "stop animals," as I've got other dedicated rifles for that, but that's me.



:cool:
 

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that's a wiked rifle ! i know i wouldnt win any target shooting matches with a sbr, but for a home defense rifle would it be ok ? The farthest i would plink would be 100 yards. at 20 to 40 yards would a 12.5" sbr ar be lethal ? would it have enough velocity/penetration to stop people or animals ?
Penetration wouldn't be the issue. Expansion/fragmentation would be. You really don't lose a significant amount of accuracy by cutting the barrel down. You do lose a lot of velocity, which is the key to success with the 5.56 cartridge. Heavier bullets do better out of short barrels. Anything in the 75-77 grain range would be best. Make sure you get a 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel though, or it may not keep these heavier bullets stable.
 

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10mm Philosopher
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Penetration wouldn't be the issue. Expansion/fragmentation would be. You really don't lose a significant amount of accuracy by cutting the barrel down. You do lose a lot of velocity, which is the key to success with the 5.56 cartridge. Heavier bullets do better out of short barrels. Anything in the 75-77 grain range would be best. Make sure you get a 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel though, or it may not keep these heavier bullets stable.
This ... Well said.

Mine likes both the 75gn & 77gn OTMs. It also likes the less pricey Privy Partisan (PPU) 75gn HPs.
 

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There are a couple of gun related bills being tossed around right now in state session, which just began again yesterday. Most are tabled right now or have died in committee because of electronic bingo and budgets.

Check the AR15.com hometown site (Gulf States) will have some good info for you.

Also check the NRA website, they will have the latest updates on these and other bills from Alabama.
 

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TheGreyEclipse
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Penetration wouldn't be the issue. Expansion/fragmentation would be. You really don't lose a significant amount of accuracy by cutting the barrel down. You do lose a lot of velocity, which is the key to success with the 5.56 cartridge. Heavier bullets do better out of short barrels. Anything in the 75-77 grain range would be best. Make sure you get a 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel though, or it may not keep these heavier bullets stable.
Completely agree. Perfect post.
 

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To the OP. Best bang $$... see below.

There are other platform options... don't get me wrong. I like the AR platform just fine, for 16" carbines. When you look at the AR DI SBR, there are many variables to consider, not just the mechanical/physics limitations of the 556. On top of that, the added costs of SBR components, and of course, the Tax Stamp(s)... just total costs alone, excludes most casual hobbyist to play.

Having said that, there's another black rifle sbr platform to consider... at 27" total length. the MSAR E4 556 (or Steyr AUG 556) comes standard with a 16" 1/8 barrel (other options avail), and uses AR15 mags. They are not inexpensive, but no more hurtles trying to achieve the right balance. The R&D was done decades ago by Steyr AUG. Most SBR criterion met... just another way to blow your hard earned cash. my 3 cents.

Before I get slammed... I like all modern black rifles!


http://img267.imageshack.us/i/lwrc5r.jpg/
http://img545.imageshack.us/i/msar1.jpg/
http://img519.imageshack.us/i/mms1.jpg/
 

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To the OP. Best bang $$... see below.

There are other platform options... don't get me wrong. I like the AR platform just fine, for 16" carbines. When you look at the AR DI SBR, there are many variables to consider, not just the mechanical/physics limitations of the 556. On top of that, the added costs of SBR components, and of course, the Tax Stamp(s)... just total costs alone, excludes most casual hobbyist to play.

Having said that, there's another black rifle sbr platform to consider... at 27" total length. the MSAR E4 556 (or Steyr AUG 556) comes standard with a 16" 1/8 barrel (other options avail), and uses AR15 mags. They are not inexpensive, but no more hurtles trying to achieve the right balance. The R&D was done decades ago by Steyr AUG. Most SBR criterion met... just another way to blow your hard earned cash. my 3 cents.

Before I get slammed... I like all modern black rifles!


http://img267.imageshack.us/i/lwrc5r.jpg/
http://img545.imageshack.us/i/msar1.jpg/
http://img519.imageshack.us/i/mms1.jpg/
I won't slam ya for that, I think the MSAR's are pretty slick. AUG for the common man!
 

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I'm in Alabama & my state was talking about allowing short barrel rifle's. How do i find out the current on this ?


I just got an update from Sen. Wendell Mithcell's office that HB2 will be voted on either April 14th , 21st or 22nd. I was told that Sen . Mitchell is in favor of this legislation and is optimistic it will pass.

Lets hope so.
 

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My Kel-Tec PLR16 has a 9.2 inch barrel with 1:9 twist. They claim 2600 fps muzzle velocity. A 20" AR has about 3,200 fps muzzle velocity. for comparison a 9mm has about 1200 fps.

I "heard" a rule of thumb was 50 fps less per inch shorter barrel with 5.56.

I think it would get the job done at less than 100 yds.

I sure as heck wouldn't want to shoot a SBR in a room, you won't hear anything else again. They are that loud.

I would never consider a SBR for in home defense for that reason. Seriously.
 

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My Kel-Tec PLR16 has a 9.2 inch barrel with 1:9 twist. They claim 2600 fps muzzle velocity. A 20" AR has about 3,200 fps muzzle velocity. for comparison a 9mm has about 1200 fps.

I "heard" a rule of thumb was 50 fps less per inch shorter barrel with 5.56.

I think it would get the job done at less than 100 yds.

I sure as heck wouldn't want to shoot a SBR in a room, you won't hear anything else again. They are that loud.

I would never consider a SBR for in home defense for that reason. Seriously.


They're not THAT bad.

But yes, they're loud.

And yes, a 10.5 or 12.5/7 inch SBR, will be very lethal at 20-40 yds. They'll be lethal at 100 yds.
 
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