Shooting/Timer discipline

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by mhambi, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    Was that the 7-11 where people warmed up their drug test pee in the microwave before going to the lab next door?
     
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  2. mhambi

    mhambi κολασμένος

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    Yeah... they probably deserved getting shot.
     
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  3. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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  4. Schrag4

    Schrag4

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    My opinion is that M&P15T blows trannies. Nobody can prove that he doesn’t so my opinion has a solid base. Do I have that right?
     
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  5. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    You are overly simplistic. Like @willie_pete said, they don’t jump on other people’s buzzers.

    It’s not a simple Pavlovian response.

    The “start signal” doesn’t mean “draw and start blasting” any more than a red light turning green means romp on the throttle fully.

    So yes, there are different types of training and people’s training is often more complex than what you’re giving credit for.

    Imagine red light / green light.

    It doesn’t mean go full bore.
    It means “assess safety to go and judge acceleration vs. available road conditions.”

    As a racer, my “training” still takes multiple factors into account and isn’t a simplistic knee jerk.

    I’ll give you an example. I was towing an enclosed trailer with an SUV at night when a fawn jumped out right front of me.

    I only had a split second to react, but because of the ability to process faster because of training I was able to avoid the fawn by inches while still maintaining control of a huge tow rig.

    I did NOT react in the same way that I would if a wheel came flying at me on a racetrack when I was in a race car.

    So yes, you revert to your training. But if your training is comprehensive and complete you can incorporate more depth to your reaction in the same time as someone else’s knee jerk.

    Blows transmissions on cars?
    Or fellates transgender individuals?
     
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  6. talon

    talon

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    I think a shoot decision and a start signal for a series of planned movements are two very different things.

    And if your a real gamer you're trying to game the timer operator and start a split second before he presses the button :)
     
  7. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    How's this for simple logic?
    Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit.
    Or is that too logical for you?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  8. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    M&P15T- since we all revert to exactly how we train, are you going to revert to "just having fun"? Maybe you'll start chuckling and joking around with the threat.

    If everyone reverted to their training, we'd have weekend racers timing the light at every intersection. Imagine the damage if every light was a drag race even in traffic.
     
  9. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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    Go get 'em, tiger.

    View: https://youtu.be/sQUfsq-0z-s
     
  10. M&P15T

    M&P15T All Hail King Kona

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    Ya'll are free to disagree with my opinion. You do your thing, I'll do mine.
     
  11. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Speaking generally, and not to any specific poster ...

    If you think your training is going to cause you to react incorrectly in the wrong circumstances, you either may not have been attending good training, or else you weren't paying enough attention and weren't getting the right lessons from it.

    Ingrained responses still require the rest of the right progression through the OODA Loop. Responding without using good judgment and making the right decision appropriate for the circumstances is still the responsibility of the person reacting to the event.

    This reminds me of the way some people used to think that martial arts training would automatically cause them to react to any surprise stimulus and start pinching and kicking.

    The startle response isn't an excuse for just reacting and using force in situations where it's not reasonable and merited. A set of physical skills may indeed be ingrained and accessible in stress at the subconscious level of being able to employ them, but it still requires good judgment and a conscious decision to use those accessed skills.
     
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  12. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Nice example of experiential application of training.

    Also a nice explanation of one of the potential benefits of properly ingrained training.
     
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  13. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    I treat firearm training like I treated race car driving. I know drivers who DID wind up under developing their mental models and maps by only driving one type of vehicle on one type of surface on one type of tire in one type of weather condition...

    They struggled when they had to race in the rain or drive a drivetrain or power delivery system different from what they knew (like a turbo instead of a high revving I4)... they were overly simplistic.

    So I trained on FWD, AWD, RWD, high horsepower, low horsepower, turbo, normal aspirated, race slicks, snow tires, ice studs on mud, snow, ice, concrete, asphalt, you name it. So I can listen and understand to how the tires, engine and vehicle all work together... no matter what it is.

    When I started shooting handguns, I wanted to make sure my fundamentals were solid. So I shot small caliber, large caliber, revolvers, striker fire, DASA, SAO, hammer fire, micro size, large frame... everything.

    I didn't start competing until I got my fundamentals down so I didn't develop bad habits. In general, I listen to what the car or gun wants to do and can do... not what I expect or want it to do.

    Internally, when I'm competing and hear a timer beep... I think "go."
    Not "shoot."

    Especially since most USPSA stages don't involve a simple draw to point blank shoot. There often is purposeful movement that arrives before the shooting. So the beep isn't directly linked to "draw and shoot."
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  14. Lot

    Lot

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    Also, a timer is worth so much more than just a go signal. The ability to measure speed against either your other previous runs or other shooters, hitting par times for shooting or reloads or whatever, shot splits, etc.
     
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  15. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?
    That is not an example, it is a hypothetical.
     
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  16. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?

    This kind ......

    [​IMG]


    Or the other kind?
     
  17. Schrag4

    Schrag4

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    Whichever kind doesn't get me in trouble with the mods! ;)
     
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  18. Detectorist

    Detectorist

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    The FBI shootout in Florida.
     
  19. hogarth

    hogarth

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    Urban myth. Didn't happen. It's usually associated with Newhall, but that is also an urban myth.
     
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  20. hogarth

    hogarth

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