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Discussion in 'GSSF' started by Fireglock, Dec 15, 2002.
How many shooters have graduated to Master with 2nd or 3rd place "Share the Wealth" "wins"?
WOW! You got me there FG, it's not where I thought you were going but it's close enough.
Does second behind "Match Meister" count?
I've got a second-place-win behind the Match Meister, but I've got one more to go before I make Master. All the scores are on-line, and you are retired, so you could go look ;Q
Look, you can see the fishies under the ice here ;f
Yep, you will qualify with one more win mcginnes. So far I've found three, maybe four:
T. Kelsey ?
Just a quick check, not exhaustive by any means. There are matches I haven't checked yet.
It has always been the policy of GSSF to promote a shooter to Master class after three am/civ wins. In the past, GSSF has been a little lax in enforcing their own policy. This year, GSSF has stayed on top of it, because of complaints that some "Amateurs" were winning 4, 5, 6 or more pistols before being notified that they were promoted to Master status. Once an amateur wins three A-1 pistols, they are no longer eligible for any more A-1 amateur pistols. This has nothing to do whatsoever with GSSF's "Share the Wealth Program," which limits Masters to one pistol win per match, and it is misleading to imply that it does. I think there has been one instance in which a non-Stockmeister shooter was awarded the Matchmeister pistol, providing the A-2 finisher with an A-1 pistol. I don't think that A-2 finisher is complaining about winning a pistol.
I support GSSF's strick enforcement of the 3-pistol rule, but disagree without reservation with the "Share The Wealth" rule that limits Masters to one pistol win per match.
Danny this has nothing to do with the rigid enforcement of the 3 gun rule. That's past, over, done, can't help me or several others this year. I am curious about how many folks graduated with a "win" caused by the "share the wealth" program with a second or third place finish. Curiosity, nothing more, nothing less.
I am curious about how many folks graduated with a "win" caused by the "share the wealth" program with a second or third place finish. Curiosity, nothing more, nothing less. [/B][/QUOTE]
Maybe those folks didn't and don't mind being bumped up or using one or two of their wins in that way. But the fact is, some of those people should not be in the UL/Master Class but will be now because of the "Share the Wealth" program. They would not have been without the program as it is.
Ho Ho Ho Tis Christmas Lets Eat, Drink and be Merry. ;8 ;p ;8 ;p ;8 ;p ;Y ;Y
There are three separate programs that are often, but should not be considered as one:
1. 3-win Amateur Rule
2. Matchmeister Rule
3. Share the wealth rule in Stockmeister and Unlimited categories.
Only those amateur shooters in Stockmeister and Unlimited that won a pistol because the shooters that placed ahead of them were reimbursed their $25.00 match fee are to be considered as graduates due to the share the wealth program.
I have just spent an hour reviewing the 2002 results and can say with 100% certainty that no amateurs have won a pistol in Stockmeister or Unlimited categories in 2002 due to the share the wealth program. Several amateurs have won a pistol in Stockmeister due to the Matchmeister Program, a totally different program.
1. Amateur wins--"GSSF awards policy is that a competitor winning three (3) Glock pistols is promoted to "Master" Status." (This means three A-1 pistols.)
2. Matchmeister--"The single best overall performance by either an Amateur or Master-rated Competitor in either the "Amateur-Civilian", "Amateur-Law Enforcement", "Amateur Competition", "Amateur Subcompact", or "StockMeister" catagories will be declared the "MatchMeister" and will be awarded a firearm prize. If the "MatchMeister" award goes to am "Amateur" rated competitor, the firearms award for the category within which he or she won the "MatchMeister" award will devolve to the 2nd place finisher in that category. Firearms awarded to "Matchmeisters" or thus awarded to 2nd place finishers will count towards establishing "Master Class" status for those individuals."
3. Share The Wealth-"In order to 'share the wealth" of firearms awards among our Master-rated competitors, any one individual Master-rated GSSF competitor may win one (1), but only one, firearm per GSSF match."
With all due respect to the esteemed Coach, (I mean that truely in all honesty) some of us know that the Matchmeister Award was thought of and instituted as a part of the Share the Wealth Program. Regardless of what the 2 monkeys in the Red shirts say. That is a fact. Without the STW Program, there would have been no Matchmeister Award. Remember Danny, some of what we are talking about came about from a number of conversations with former GSSF shooters.
I will agree that the 3 AM wins which also includes 3 wins in any Cat. is somewhat seperate. Although it too is affected by the possibility of someone receiving a gun because another person is Matchmeister, or won a gun in UL etc. The possibilities are numerous on how someone who didn't win a gun, will receive one due to the overall affect of the STW Program. That in turn will affect the number of wins someone may have overall towards being graduated.
As I said above, someone who finishes 2nd in Stockmeister but gets a gun because the Stockmeister HOA is Matchmeister, now has a win towards being bumped. That's just one possibility, there are many others.
To my knowledge, only Masters have earned pistols in Unlimited Category in 2002. Looks like I'll have to spend another hour or so reviewing the Matchmeister Program awards. With 26 matches to date, there have naturally been 26 Matchmeister awards, mostly in Stockmeister Category, with pistols for 2nd best going mostly to Masters. To satisfy the restless masses here, I'll post very specific statistics regarding the Matchmeister Program.
Now if anyone wishes to do something productive, how about suggesting a way to prevent Masters of other shooting disciplines from posing as Amateurs at GSSF matches and walking away from their first GSSF match with two or three pistols. According to GSSF rules, this is flat out cheating. I will start a thread called "Masters posing as Amateurs" and welcome your constructive suggestions.
I'm beginning to tire of all the generalizations about amateurs being promoted to Master Status because of the Matchmeister program. In my opinion, if an Amateur is good enough to finish 2nd in Stockmeister, beating mostly Masters, then that amateur deserves to be a master also. Are the masters beginning to fear us amateurs? Should Stockmeister and Unlimited Categories be strictly for Masters? Should Unlimited be strictly for Amateurs? Should GSSF sell official GSSF crying towels at registration?
Q. Are the masters beginning to fear us amateurs?
A. I don't think so.
Q.Should Stockmeister and Unlimited Categories be strictly for Masters?
A. No, but the other people that play in those categories should not cry when certain people win more than them.
Q. Should GSSF sell official GSSF crying towels at registration?
A. Should have done that long ago instead of caving in to a number of cry babies that shoot once a year or so.;f
The USPSA classification can be looked up online. There is a "batch" lookup feature that would allow the staff to input a number of shooters at once.
So, for those that pre-register. GSSF could require that they include their USPSA number.
For those registering on match day...you'd have to have an internet connection handy at the match.
Then again...this really only effects the winners. They could be checked after the fact.
You are right about that sport. But the problem as I posted in the other thread is all the other sports. You have IDPA, Bullseye, Steel shooting etc. The staff would go crazy even after the match to check the winners. It could be done if it were seen as a real big problem. But if not a continuing or ongoing problem, it's probably not worth the effort needed. It's kinda like a nuisance suit. They get settled because they are not worth the time, effort and money.
My feeling is we let GSSF make the rules and then if we like them enough to play, then play. If they don't suit us, we don't play. There will always be "cry babies" on at least one side. Before, they were amatures. Now the pendulum swings the other way. At least the amatures have all but quit whining. That is why there are no crying towels at the matches.
As some have shown, you don't have to play if you stongly disagree. I think the "monkey in the red shirts" comment is unfair. The "monkeys" put on one heck of a good show for 99% of GSSF members. Each is definitely intitled to his/her own opinion, but the "change it 'til I like it" stuff is getting old. As are the one line jabs at the GSSF staff and rule makers.
Rule change or Status Quo? Doesn't matter! I'm going, I'm shooting, and I'm having fun. I like it. If that stops, I will hang out in Non-Glocking.
Merry Christmas everyone. Hope Santa is good to you.
;f ;a ;f
Hey TJC, are you whining? ;Q I'm not, 2nds don't hurt me.
I'll take them anyway I can get them!;f