Setting up a defensive rifle

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by K. Foster, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    Messages:
    38,473
    Likes Received:
    144
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    Zombies gather in groups when they hear noises that attract them. It's not a grouping behavior per se, but rather that the individual zombie reacts to the same stimulus and moves toward it, so it is natural that they will bunch up when the same stimulus reaches a bunch of zombies at the same time. When you observe a group of zombies, absent any stimulus, they will just mill about, bumping into each other, and eventually scatter.

    Shotguns can blow a head off a zombie, but you need to close and if you are faced with a lot of zombies, the limited capacity, slow reloadability, and heavier weight of a shotgun can really be more of a hindrance and put you in danger.

    Robots without specific programming can wander around, but if programmed with a mission, like the Terminator, e.g. T101, T1000, or TX, they will be hard to pick out as such and a sniper rifle will be of little use against the T1000 and TX. Even a T101 can withstand quite a bit of 7.62Nato fire.

    Suppressors are a great idea with zombies so they don't hear the gunshot and congregate on your location. Robots made after the clone wars have very sensitive acoustic receivers and can register gunshots from miles away and pinpoint the caliber and your exact location.

    Zombies have no emotions. They cannot hate, love, distrust, etc. They are dead bodies animated by Solanum with only the desire to eat flesh.

    At 400 yards, a 7.62Nato round will not carry enough energy to penetrate most exoskeletons of post-Clone war robots.

    Zombies do not possess the locomotive ability to jump. They usually shamble along and sometimes crawl if they have already decomposed or suffered damage to their legs. You are thinking of the "infected humans" seen in "28 Days Later" or "I am Legend". Those are not zombies per se, they are still humans who have been infected with a virus that does not kill them, but rather, instilled a hunger or rage in them to feed and kill humans. They are still living and breathing, which is the key difference between them and true zombies, who do not need air as they are dead.

    But fear the man with lots of guns and lots of ammo too!
     
  2. Popsmoke

    Popsmoke

    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Location:
    Atlanta
    You make some good points, for close in work with Zombies either a carbine length AR or a shotgun will do - agreed that you need a good secondary weapon, but you should always carry a backup. Shotguns are inherently slower, but have a greater likely hood of 1 shot drops.

    As for Robots, the 2nd generation Terminator was made from a mimetic polyalloy - not able to morph into complex machines but could make one helluva club, blade, or checkerboard floor.
    For Crists sake - I've personally seen one take a 40mm grenade to the head and recover.
    But this was a very unusual robot from the future - and was a prototype not likely to appear again. Not unless John Connor has something else up his sleeve.
    I tend to train and equip for 1st generation T1000, Cylon type robots and the garden variety 1st generation Robbies. These can be taken with heavier calibers. But if you let them get inside your perimeter, you will definitely need to deploy most of your arms room.

    As for this statement - I totally disagree:
    They are still living and breathing, which is the key difference between them and true zombies, who do not need air as they are dead.

    All zombies need air to breath - think about it, if they didn't then they could attack from underwater or from space - that would be totally ridiculous, as they cannot manage scuba gear or a spaceship.
    I think you were lumping them in the same category as skeletons like from Pirates of Caribbean -where for these edged or clubbed weapons were the most effective - but those are beyond the scope of this discussion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010

  3. Bilbo Bagins

    Bilbo Bagins Slacked jawed

    Messages:
    11,211
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    If I was going to put a light on my AR, it would not be using pathetic 80lums Surefire G3 LED. Heck the Streamlight TLR3 that I have for my Glock 19 throws 90lums, is cheaper, and you don't need a flashlight adapter, just a rail. For outdoor use, you going to need something closer to 200lums, because 80 to 90 lums will only light up out to 25 yards, and you want that "Blinding" light at close range. Surefire is behind the times, try something made Nitecore, Fenix, Olight, or 4Seven.

    Also, ARs are good for zombies, but if its robots, I would go with an AK or and AR-10.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  4. djegators

    djegators

    Messages:
    7,425
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Apparently, no, as this thread turned into a zombie thread. :faint:
     
  5. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    Messages:
    38,473
    Likes Received:
    144
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    Agreed. However, if I can avoid engagement, I would rather sneak away in the other direction. Fire off 1 shot and all the zombies in the vicinity will congregate on your location. Not worth it if you can avoid it. Survival is the key, not winning.

    Very true. I see you have studied your "Resistance" handbook.

    Nope. Sorry, buddy. In every single George Romero movie, including Land of the Dead, you see that the zombies are dead, as some shamble with half their entrails hanging out, no blood, half their torso gone, etc. You also see the whole group going underwater into the lake and then reemerging on the other side to attack the last refuge of the living. None of them swam, they just traversed the bottom of the lake.

    There are recorded attacks of zombies that froze in the higher altitudes and then thawed in the spring, ready to attack again. I implore you to read "The Zombie Survival Guide" because it contains valuable information. I will read up on John Connor's Resistance and the robots on my end.

    As for space, I can't address that but theoretically, a zombie will still be frozen in space first and foremost just as anything in that harsh environment and then when the sunlight hits, the radiation will cook the tissue and perhaps it will be fried and disintegrated. That might kill it. However, on a spaceship or a surface station where the environment is protected, even if the power shut off and the air supply is gone, any zombies there can still attack as they don't need air.

    Skeletons need blunt striking weapons. Edged weapons do little but chip bones unless you carry enough momentum to break the bones, which is very unlikely except for the Claymore sword or a big battleaxe.
     
  6. HAIL CAESAR

    HAIL CAESAR Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,273
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2007
    Location:
    In my shop
    I vote both, with a smattering of no experience with anything he talks about.
     
  7. K. Foster

    K. Foster

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    2,622
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Location:
    Mo.
    Streamlight and Surefire pistol lights are another good light option.
    Regarding the need for 200 lumens, the mission dictates the gear. I have no trouble identifying threats or non-threats out to 35 yards with a G2 led.
    On “blinding light” You want a light that is sufficiently bright enough to fully illuminate your environment but from actual use, I can say that catch phrases like ‘submitting your opponent with light’ or building a wall of light’ are more marketing hype than reality.
     
  8. triggerjerk

    triggerjerk

    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes Received:
    183
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2000
    Here's mine.
    [​IMG]
    Need to zero the laser (crimson trace mvf-51) and the new low profile buis.
    Just wish I had a VLTOR to store batteries in . . .
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  9. Bilbo Bagins

    Bilbo Bagins Slacked jawed

    Messages:
    11,211
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Surefire is not a good option, its Mall ninja tactical hype. Why do I want to spend almost $100 for a G3 that has the same throw as a 3 D Cell maglight with an incandecent bulb, when I can get something that throws 150lums or more for $60 to $80. The only lights that Surefire makes that put out over 150lum will run you over $150, and they are not better quality to other companies.

    I was in Law enforcement before high intensity LED flashlight really hit the scene. Trust me whether your searching around an unlit house for an armed suspect, or trying to shoot something 25 to 50 yards away, the difference between 80lums and 200 lums is literally the difference between night and day.

    Unlike the craptacular G3, Most lights today can have multiple settings for low, medium and high output, so if you need to go in with a dim setting, then turn it up to high when you need max light.

    No "mission" requires a dim light with one setting. Its like money and sex, more is always better :supergrin:

    I notice my previous comment mentioned Streamlight was behind the times, I meant to say Surefire. I got the two mixed up and will edit.
     
  10. TimP

    TimP 1 Proud Infidel

    Messages:
    2,154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2003
    Location:
    NC
    I think it will run just as good as every other BCM product. :)

    I'm really wanting another 16-18 gun
     
  11. K. Foster

    K. Foster

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    2,622
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Location:
    Mo.
    You are certainly welcome to your opinion.
     
  12. HAIL CAESAR

    HAIL CAESAR Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,273
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2007
    Location:
    In my shop
    I duct taped the old metal lights to a the forearm of a 30-30. So what.

    Surefire's cost so much because they test and engineer the bedickens out of their gear before putting it in the hands of a Soldier or 5-0.

    Some of the companies are cheaper because they are China companies that just blatantly rip off Surefire with cheap components.

    And the rest are companies that have no innovation and no testing.

    I use my same rifle for work as I do coyote hunting. I use Surefires at work when my life depends on it ( and sometimes a Streamlight) but I leave the cheap China lights for hunting and training.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  13. Hedo1

    Hedo1

    Messages:
    1,116
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    K. Foster,

    You description is almost identical to my AR Carbine set up. I've got an Eotech 512 and a free floated barrel. That's about my only changes. My tow point sling is mounted to the back of the stock and I have it attached with Paracord just because I like it that way.

    Good set up you described.
     
  14. K. Foster

    K. Foster

    Messages:
    3,795
    Likes Received:
    2,622
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Location:
    Mo.
  15. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    Messages:
    38,473
    Likes Received:
    144
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    Is Surefire expensive? Yeah, you can get Pelican or Streamlight stuff for maybe a little cheaper, but when it comes down to police strength duty lights, how much is $10 or $20 worth?

    Surefire tests everything to the death and gives you that lifetime warranty. I have a 6PD LED and while it's not the brightest or cheapest light I have, it is a great light and I feel confident carrying it to do its job, i.e. light.
     
  16. GreyEclipse

    GreyEclipse TheGreyEclipse

    Messages:
    1,924
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Location:
    GA&WY
    I like holographic sights like Eotech but I heard that they have low battery life, they get turned on easily by bumping them accidently and that they don't perform as well in cold weather. I live in Wyoming, we don't have cold weather, we have freezing weather. haha, what holographic sight would you recommend?
     
  17. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    Messages:
    38,473
    Likes Received:
    144
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    Depends on what your priorities are:

    EOTechs are great Holographic sights that mostly use common AA or CR123 batteries which may not last a long time but the batteries are common (not counting the N model lights). Most EOTechs are in the $400-480 range. They are big and relatively heavy but you don't need a separate mount since they are set up to co-witness on standard front AR sights.

    Aimpoints use CR2032 batteries which can be expensive and harder to find unless you have 24 hour access to a Radio Shack or other electronics store. The battery life is supposed to be much higher to the order the 10x EOTech if you believe the manufacturer's specs. Aimpoints can cost $550 and up for the T-1 Microdot series. Some also necessitate a separate mount purchase as they are relatively small sights so you need to get a riser or hi-mount to clear your AR front sight if you don't have a folding one. Aimpoint is supposed to have unrivaled customer support.

    Trijicon is self-luminous and never needs batteries. Instead, it uses tritium to illuminate the reticle at night and fiber optics to gather light to light up the reticle during the day. It's a system that has worked pretty well. There's also a tri-power model that adds a battery backup power system to be redundant with the other two light sources in case something fails and you want to have that option to go to battery power. Trijicons start at $450 for the RX series to $2,000 for the TA series.

    I have both an EOTech 517 and a Trijicon Reflex RX06-14. No Aimpoint yet. I like having the ease of finding AA batteries to power my EOTech and the Trijicon is maintenance free. What else can I ask from my sights in the harsh winters of Los Angeles?
     
  18. GreyEclipse

    GreyEclipse TheGreyEclipse

    Messages:
    1,924
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Location:
    GA&WY
    Sounds like I'm going to have to try the EoTech and Trijicon out then. :tongueout:
    The only thing I'm worried about is buying an EoTech and have it crap out on me because it's a little chilly. It stays under 30 degrees here.
    The Trijicon that you're talking about is a simple red by definition, correct?
     
  19. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    Messages:
    38,473
    Likes Received:
    144
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    It just keeps getting better, don't it?
    I would say Trijicon to be safe in all conditions for you. The not needing a battery part is what got me. That's just awesome. I've only had my EOTech since December so I can't tell ya about long term issues but if our soldiers and SWAT use it... I got no complaints.

    What do you mean simple red by definition? I have no idea... mine has the yellow triangle 12.9MOA reticle on a flat top hi-mount.
     
  20. Darkangel1846

    Darkangel1846

    Messages:
    6,463
    Likes Received:
    5,595
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Location:
    Oregon
    Well just remember batteries go dead...so train with Iron sights....optics are a luxury.
    Also remember flashlights are great it helps you see someone else, but it also gives your position away(they work both ways), night vision works well they will have it also. Train with you striped basic model and become proficient with iron sights, after that add all you want.