Seating Die Indexing Off Locator Pin—Is This Wrong?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by xTerpx, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. xTerpx

    xTerpx Preferred Pronouns: (It, Ya'll, Bruh)

    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    6,185
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    ...another total rookie question, but I have been humming right along doing a lot of loading trying to beat Old Man Winter (I am in the garage) and noticed something that raised a flag.

    My Redding seating die was hitting the locator pin every time at the end of the upstroke. I didn't notice this until I saw one of the little plastic aftermarket locator pin tabs showing some stress.


    IMG_2327.jpg

    IMG_2325.jpg


    I followed the Redding instructions and installed it to the point where it just touched the shell-plate, then backed it out until the micrometer readings were due West where I could see them. All was well.

    I've been cranking out some nice ammo (best SD rounded up to "3" in a 10-shot string when load testing and very nice tolerances/results when mass producing practice ammo) with little variance, but the seating die indexing off the locator pin kept weighing on me.

    I thought...softer than steel, but banging into the pin 100K times can't be good...and thought perhaps it could be holding back another case on the shellplate from fully entering in another die)

    So I thought no harm, no foul backing the die out a couple turns, so it didn't bottom out on the locator pin.


    IMG_2442.jpg

    With other dies (sizing, for example) I can see where not getting the case 100% up into the die could be an issue, but with the seating die, I thought a short case would have the bullet seated more shallow than a longer case entering the die. Either way it shouldn't impact OAL at all, just the seating depth based on case length.

    Now I question my assumptions.

    I ask, as @9x45 mentioned that the brass wouldn't contribute to the variance I am now seeing in OAL. When I discovered this newfound variance, I measured all my inputs to see what was impacting my output...took 10-20 bullets, measured for size...1 thou variance on 2-3 outliers. I took some new brass and found 4 thou variance.

    When the die touched the locator pin, I was getting a full stroke still, so barely touching...but is this wrong? I thought so and changed it, then saw some 8 thou variances creep in.

    I know, I know, and they were fine and shot fine, but now it just calls into question whether my 'fix' for the indexing off the locator pin did more 'harm' than good.
     
  2. SARDG

    SARDG Florida's Left Coast

    Messages:
    8,943
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Florida's Left Coast
    If you removed the blue thingy, the seat die wouldn't hit the pin.
     
    fredj338 and xTerpx like this.

  3. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

    Messages:
    6,920
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 1999
    Location:
    Southern California
  4. xTerpx

    xTerpx Preferred Pronouns: (It, Ya'll, Bruh)

    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    6,185
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    lololol

    Wow, I'm going to blame this on the number of adult beverages consumed during last night's brawl. You're a genius, ma'am. :)

    ...BUT, that aside, am I okay backing the die out as I did? Shouldn't contribute to my newfound variance any, correct?

    Were it a sizing die, for example, I could see that it would have implications...but in this case, good to go doing what I did?
     
  5. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

    Messages:
    10,065
    Likes Received:
    3,690
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2000
    Location:
    Mary Esther FL
    If you are just seating the bullet? The die body is doing anything except keeping everything straight. The seating stem is what is adjusting the COL. So yes you can back off the die some.
     
  6. SARDG

    SARDG Florida's Left Coast

    Messages:
    8,943
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Florida's Left Coast
    Not certain... but my red thingy may be thinner than your blue thingy. At any rate, I've been using combo seat/crimp dies and they are nowhere near the shellplate.

    RedThingy.jpg
     
    xTerpx likes this.
  7. rangerhgm

    rangerhgm NRA Member

    Messages:
    2,310
    Likes Received:
    2,325
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Location:
    SW OH
    Rather than use those plastic "thingys", I made some aluminum tabs from a beer can......it was a good excuse to have a beer to get some aluminum to work with.

    Easy to get the locator pins out, but thin enough to not cause any problems
     
    BillKilgore, flyover and SARDG like this.
  8. SARDG

    SARDG Florida's Left Coast

    Messages:
    8,943
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Florida's Left Coast
    Well now we need pics of those... :drink:
     
  9. Taterhead

    Taterhead

    Messages:
    6,581
    Likes Received:
    3,807
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Location:
    Idaho
    Man, the CRB street cred is off the charts with that one! I love it!
     
    BillKilgore, rangerhgm and xTerpx like this.
  10. xTerpx

    xTerpx Preferred Pronouns: (It, Ya'll, Bruh)

    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    6,185
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Red?!? #sacrilege #TeamBlue

    I'm a 'value' guy who will open his wallet wide if there's perceived value to be had, but $15 for these seemed too high to me (I'm also cheap). :)

    I may have to take one for the team and report back...would eliminate the need to back the die out while potentially fixing another minor issue (centrifugal force wanting to draw the case out toward the edge of the shell-plate, then being snapped back in as it meets the locator pin in the subsequent station).

    s-l1600 (2).jpg
     
  11. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    34,596
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    You guys must have sausages for fingers. It is pretty easy to manipulate the pins without any tabs. Its just simpler.
     
    ThomasM4 likes this.
  12. babue

    babue

    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Those tabs look nice. Where did you find them?
     
  13. xTerpx

    xTerpx Preferred Pronouns: (It, Ya'll, Bruh)

    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    6,185
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    I'm a bottle guy, but I thought of this as I was opening up a new tube of grease to service my mower this afternoon...

    IMG_2467.jpg IMG_2468.jpg
     
    Taterhead and rangerhgm like this.
  14. xTerpx

    xTerpx Preferred Pronouns: (It, Ya'll, Bruh)

    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    6,185
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    eBay...will grab the link and post when I get home.
     
  15. Taterhead

    Taterhead

    Messages:
    6,581
    Likes Received:
    3,807
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Location:
    Idaho
    That looks pretty ergo to me! Well engineered design!
     
  16. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

    Messages:
    6,920
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 1999
    Location:
    Southern California
    X, and the shell plate is properly tightened?
     
  17. xTerpx

    xTerpx Preferred Pronouns: (It, Ya'll, Bruh)

    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    6,185
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Yes, sir...finally loaded enough that I did my first oil and lube service (and removed the shellplate).

    I did it twice to ensure I had it just at the point where it turns freely/nicely just before it binds. :)
     
  18. xTerpx

    xTerpx Preferred Pronouns: (It, Ya'll, Bruh)

    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    6,185
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
  19. babue

    babue

    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    xTerpx likes this.
  20. babue

    babue

    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Tabs arrive already today. I was not loading anything today but put them in the machine and cycled some brass.
    They fit just as the picture show. No problems dropping them in place of the stock pins. The brass does not even wiggle a bit when I cycle the machine. When the plate snaps into position the brass stays very still, no shaking around.
    I will load a few rounds later this week and report if the tabs help with powder shaking out of the brass. So far, they
    look like a good addition.
     
    xTerpx, SARDG and Taterhead like this.