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SD trigger modification liability.

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Birddog9, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Birddog9

    Birddog9 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    I've been trying to search and I can't find my answer so.....I haven't been in Law Enforcement very long but I've yet to hear about anyone getting prosecuted for using a modified gun for self defense. So to not beat a dead horse if anyone can point me to some court cases I would like to read up on this matter.
     
  2. JBP55

    JBP55

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    This has been asked repeatedly on GT and No One ever quotes Case Law or Court Cases where anyone was ever convicted for enhancing the trigger in order to give them better shot placement.
     

  3. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    To add; The only cases anyone has been able to quote about any type of change from stock that played a part in a court case, all envolved LEOs. None concerned law-abiding citizens that carried.
     
  4. barth

    barth six barrels

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    I think you're going to hear nothing but crickets on this one - LOL!
     
  5. 2005 Vette

    2005 Vette

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    If a private citizen was involved in a self defense shooting would anyone take apart a gun to verify whether it was modified or not?
     
  6. wuvmyglock

    wuvmyglock

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    If modifying your weapon gives you an advantage over some scumbag puke.... Sorry bout his luck.
     
  7. 1eyedjack

    1eyedjack Old Pirate

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    A skilled prosecutor can spin most anything and convince 12 jurors to vote his/her way...
     
  8. CTfam

    CTfam DREAM BIG.

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  9. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

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    Here's my $0.02 worth. I shoot matches once a week and have seen accidents (fortunately nothing too serious) due to guys handling guns with triggers that are light. I shoot a variety of guns including a G34 that comes with a lighter trigger and a stock G19. I really don't see much of a difference. Heck, I even shot matches for a while with my 92F, which had the horrible first trigger pull. After several matches, I didn't even think about it or notice. Point being, you shoot enough and you may find the trigger pull is really not an issue. So to me, it's just not worth the added risk. However YMMV.
     
  10. PAGunner

    PAGunner

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    Any jacktard prosecutor can make any argument they want. Merely carrying a gun, carrying an extra magazine, carrying hot ammo, carrying JHPs, carrying a BUG, carrying a "large caliber" "military caliber" or "police caliber" weapon, using LE self defense JHPs, merely being present somewhere the defendant is free as a citizen to be.... You get my point. It's silly to worry about it. If you ever have to defend yourself in court it's gonna be costly either way. An "expert" witness could easily come in and support your attorney's argument that you used a lighter trigger to improve accuracy and in fact that makes you more responsible.

    Point is, it's not illegal to modify your trigger and is an easily defendable decision to defend if you must in court.
     
  11. H&K 4 LIFE

    H&K 4 LIFE Leonum A Ignis

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    The issue of whether or not a "modified" trigger presents itself as a legal liability is often a hotly debated topic.

    What serves as indisputable fact is that by learning and using the stock trigger there is zero possibility of this issue even being raised.

    As you seem to imply you are an LEO, and therefore I am certain your department is most likely very specific in regards as to what modifications from the stock configuration (if any) are approved in your Glock for duty use. Check with your employer.
     
  12. Birddog9

    Birddog9 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Well I just Honestly never heard or knew that this was an issue until reading posts on this site. I do get how lawyers spin things because I've been on the stand before. But I was just curious to read some case law for myself. I'll see if maybe I can pick our city attorney's brain I suppose. Just curious since it is spoken of anytime someone asks about modding a trigger that maybe someone had a quick reference I could look at. Because I agree with the posts so far, do what works for you to give you the highest hit probability. The best motto I've take. With me through any and all my training is keep the mindset that " I'm going home at the end of my shift no matter what" the same applies to all, modded gun or not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  13. 640400

    640400

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    I believe the only time a "modified" firearm argument would come up is if it malfunctioned and someone got hurt or killed. If you shot someone with a firearm with a 5.5 lb trigger as apposed to a 3.5 trigger it would not make a hill of feces difference.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  14. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    The last time this was discussed, there was a convoluted argument that the gun fired by accident (light trigger, etc) and there was no defense for an accidental homicide. I don't recall the exact scenario but it was a stretch.

    It hinged on the idea that you made a mistake and never really intended to shoot the dirtbag.

    Search the site, I guess. This was about 6 weeks ago, more or less.

    Richard
     
  15. MinnesnowtaWild

    MinnesnowtaWild

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    No idea about the legalities, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to be the one who is made an example of with case law.

    Concealed carry guns shouldn't be modified internally, IMO.
     
  16. bentbiker

    bentbiker

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    The argument I've seen espoused was that the prosecutor might argue that the shooter didn't really mean to pull the trigger (it was accidental because of a light trigger), in spite of the fact that it was a good shoot and the shooter admitted intentionally pulling the trigger. If that ever happens, and a prosecutor raises doubt in the minds of the jury as to whether the shooter even meant to fire, after the shooter admitted intentionally firing, I think the city would test his sanity and then promptly fire his ***. I also believe that every person repeating the mantra of keeping it stock is traceable to ONE well known individual, who just happens to be a member here.
     
  17. samurairabbi

    samurairabbi Dungeon Schmuck

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    In his book "The Ayoob Files", Massad Ayoob has related one attempt by prosecutors to try a beat-down on a revolver shooter who clipped a couple links off a trigger spring. The attempt failed.

    Curiously, there is ONE demonstrable instance of a trial in which an altered revolver was used to REDUCE a defendant's culpability. It was the 1991 Latasha Harlins shooting in LA, when a shopowner was convicted of voluntary manslaughter of a customer. The presiding judge, at sentencing, used an altered trigger sear in a revolver to reduce the sentence of the defendant (and did so invalidly, in my opinion).

    That case has been called the "undercard" to the first Rodney King trial.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  18. bc5000

    bc5000

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    Of all the gun forums I belong to, I had never even noticed it being discussed until I came here.

    After coming here I feel like I should lock up my handguns, AR 15 and Saiga 12 and just place a butcher knife in each room of the house because every firearm I own has been modified internally one way or another.
     
  19. Pardoner

    Pardoner

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    When home at lunch a couple years ago, Court TV had a trial on where they had a president of a gun company (smaller company not one of the big ones) on the witness stand. I should have hit record on the DVR.

    They were questioning him about a lightened trigger. He pointed out that there was a safety recall and that this gun had not been to their factory for the upgrade and if it had gone to them for the upgrade, they would have returned the firearm to it's original factory specs before returning it.

    I only saw it for about 15 mins because I was eating lunch. Did it have any bearing on how the case worked out? No idea, but it sure as hell came up!

    The company president made it seem really clear that the altered trigger was "NOT" safe and "NOT" an approved modification.

    Take it for what its worth. If I end up in court over a shooting, I wouldn't want my $300/hr attorney to waste any time trying to convince some little old lady that I knew how to make my trigger better than Gaston himself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012