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SD gun for co-worker

904 Views 19 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  sourdough44
A female co-worker has been bugging me to take her to the gun range and teach her to shoot, and look at guns with her. Her ultimate goal is to buy a handgun for home/self defense, as she is a psuedo-single mom. We went yesterday and I had her shoot my Sig 232 (.380) and my Glock 19. She did pretty well for her first time (first two shots were dead center, then she started worrying about more than the target). She was a good listener and was willing to learn. I was proud of her. When she finished, she said that she liked that she was able to hit better with the Sig, but did not like the recoil (percieved) of it and felt that she Glock had less recoil, but did not like the fat grips on it. I explained to her the difference in blow-back vs. tilting barrell design and the difference that gun weight and grip angle can make. We went to a couple of different gun stores and she held and examined a variety of guns. She wants something relatively small enough to carry in purse and comfortable for her to use. We established that a slim grip profile was what she felt most comfortable holding. She seemed to gravitate towards a Kahr P9 and also liked a Taurus 709. She was also looking at a Sig 239 (I would like one of those!) but had more to say about the Kahr and Taurus. She liked that the Taurus had an external safety. She is trying not to spend a ton (she really wanted to keep below $400, as she is trying to support her household, but aknowledged that it might be hard to do) None of the stores had any of these three to rent. I am not familar at all with the Kahr or the Taurus. I am looking for opinions of these firearms. I really do think that once she shoots more and gets more acclimated to shooting guns, she will do very well with them. I joked to her that she may become addicted to it like me!! :wavey: Thoughts please.
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She may want to look at a P6 sig, it's the same as the P225 but was the military edition. It can be found for around 400 dollars. One thing though, you'll want to replace the mainspring with that from a stock P225 or a reduced power one, the military spring is HEAVY. Another idea is a Smith and Wesson model 908 or 3913, they're compact single stacks as well. Best of luck to her.
 

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She should like the Kahr CW9. I have one which is my primary carry. I have glock, springfield, smith, ruger, etc but the Kahr is very comfortable to carry and the CW9 should be around $400. She needs to find one to shoot before she purchases.
 

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Good advice so far.

One thing I have learned about woman and guns is that you can never tell what they are going to like and shoot well.

My wife shot my SIG P6 225 and loved it. She shoots it like a target gun and it became hers. I never loved the 225 because it was a little small for my hands. It fits here well.

Snub nose.
A snubby is always a good option but it takes real skill to shoot well. You shoot a snubby different than most guns so if you can't shoot a snubby well, have her get some professional training on it. A snubby is a real weapon in the right hands and can be shot fast and accurately if done right. If you don't know how to shoot a snub nose, they are very inaccurate and hard to keep on paper.

Kahr.
I am of two minds on the Kahr pistols. The all steel pistols are world class and make great SD handguns but the plastic pistols are junk. Some people have had good luck with the plastic guns but they are flawed by design and I won't own another or trust one. The steel guns are as good as they come and the plastic is as bad as they come. Two different things. The steel Kahrs are expensive but shoot very well. They seem heavy but in reality are only 25ozs give or take which is the same as a S&W 3913 or SIG 239. Kahrs don't recoil much due to the low bore axis. Very compact and fit the hand better than any other pistol.

Beretta 85.
My wife just got one of these and it is a great gun. Typical Beretta reliability which is 100%. She shoots it well but not as well as the SIG and it recoils as much if not more. Ammo is more expensive and less powerful and there are fewer choices. I love the Beretta 85 but in reality, a Kahr K-9, S&W 3913, SIG 239, SIG 225 would all be better guns for her most likely unless she really clicks with the Beretta. Also, the Beretta is very expensive.

S&W 3913.
Weighs the same as the all steel Kahr K-9 but is larger and has an alloy frame. Holds one more shot. A bit bulky but still compact. Can be found used for less than $400. Reliable like most 3rd gen S&W autos. Good gun.


My suggestion is the Kel-Tec PF-9. I am no Kel-Tec fan but this gun seems to work and shoots well. Somehow KT guns always shoot soft with low recoil. You would think this gun would be nasty to shoot but it is not at all. It is small, compact, light weight and slim. I consider it to be better than the Kahr plastic pistols and I replaced my Kahr P-9 with one and have been pleased. With a base plate mag extension and rubber grip like the Hogue, it feels good in the hand. I just use a piece of inner tube to fatten the grip a bit and give better traction. Work fine and is free!

I am not sure about Taurus, I have have bad luck with everything from them except the Beretta clones which are great.
 

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One thing I have learned about woman and guns is that you can never tell what they are going to like and shoot well.
That's a fact.

Whenever I teach a new female shooter I let them shoot a number of guns. (the advantage of having your own range and a lot of guns :) )
It's not unusual for them to like a gun at first then dislike it after shooting it a while. Or grow to like a gun after shooting it a while.
One gun the females have all liked is the J Frame 38 Specials but the little gun needs a decent grip installed for a lot of practice shooting.

I just tell them the pros and cons of each gun, let them shoot it a lot and let them make up their own minds.



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i think a kel tec pf 9 would be good, light and 9mm, or a ruger LCR 38 cal revolver 13oz, both very accurate and dependible.....
I am intrigued by the Ruger LCR. When I saw the pics online, I thought it was some kind of sick joke it was so ugly. I picked one up at the gunshop and I really liked the way it felt. I want to shoot one but the price is high. They are $600 and up near me which is far too much for what it is and what it does. I can buy a new S&W lightweight snubby for $400.
 

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The kel-tech pf 9 has a harsh recoil,i gather she is somewhat recoil sensitive.Check out the Bersa Thunder 380,enexpensive and mine is quite reliable.
 

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If she likes the Sig, I would help her find a nice plain P239. She is probably going to buy one gun for her whole life, how much per year more is it going to cost to buy top shelf?
 

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Steve,

I'm a female who owns six Glocks (including a G30 and G36), a Taurus .38 wheel gun, and a Kahr PM-9. (Uh-oh, 'plastic')

I am fairly large-framed and carried the G30 in winter when I lived in St. Louis. Now, since moving to Florida I carry the PM-9 100% of the time. The Kahr is very light, very small, and I have had zero problems since buying it new in early 2007. It is so small that with the 6-round mag, the shooter has a dangling pinky - but it also comes with an extended 7-round mag to cure that. (I use the 6-round, only – plus one in the chamber.)

Kahrs are relatively expensive (some would say, overpriced), but there may be a model out there that can be bought for $400. But some folks have had alleged problems with Kahrs and that may be why the used one is on the market. I recommended to an older friend (and let him shoot before) a PM-9 and we then found a clean one used for $550, and it also has zero problems.

A couple of things about small Kahrs:

The recoil spring is heavier than many pistols so pulling back the slide for field stripping, etc. can be more difficult.

When field stripping, the slide must be held about halfway back and witness marks must be lined up while the slide stop is removed – then reversed for reassembly.

When first shooting a Kahr (DAO) it seems as though the trigger must be pulled back into the previous county before it goes bang. (Shoot a couple of mags and she'll get used to this right away.)

Kahr recommends chambering a round ONLY by locking back the slide, inserting the mag and releasing the slide with the slide stop. You can slingshot them, but unless it is done with EXTREME authority, you are asking for trouble - and slingshot chambering is not recommended by Kahr as people (men and women) just don't do it with the force required to get the round chambered and the pistol into battery.

I’ll Mexican carry my Kahr daily for six months or more (with a round chambered) and then go to the range, pull it out (no lube for 6 months and full of lint), and it always goes bang – always! And it’s accurate.


The Taurus is a complete piece of junk and many low to medium priced revolvers have triggers that are really heavy, making accuracy less than desirable at times.


If your coworker's goal is to carry this gun regularly, I DO NOT recommend purse carry. If she takes my advice, she would carry it on her person and therefore, the smaller the gun, the more comfortable and concealable it will be. Read my account here about my purse snatching in Post #10 (and #14 for that matter.)

You don't say where you are located, but she is welcome to shoot my 'plastic' PM-9 (or G36 for that matter) if you are near the Tampa FL area. (Yeah - what are the chances?)
 

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Get on a few different forums and ask if any members in your area have the guns you/she likes. Offer to buy lunch for the person if they meet you at the range.

If I have something a person I don't know is looking for, all I ask is that they buy their own factory ammo and range time.
 

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Steve,



I’ll Mexican carry my Kahr daily for six months or more (with a round chambered) and then go to the range, pull it out (no lube for 6 months and full of lint), and it always goes bang – always! And it’s accurate.
good to see someone else not afraid to mexican carry.
I think a PM9 is probably a good choice too... what a nice feel to the pistol and seems high quality.
I would also recommend to the OP to have her check out the P239 as well.
IMO it is better to have her buy best gun for her as opposed to trying to be cheap about it and get a possible problem waiting to happen.
 

· Florida's Left Coast
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If I have something a person I don't know is looking for, all I ask is that they buy their own factory ammo and range time.
Same here.


good to see someone else not afraid to mexican carry.
I think a PM9 is probably a good choice too... what a nice feel to the pistol and seems high quality.
...IMO it is better to have her buy best gun for her as opposed to trying to be cheap about it and get a possible problem waiting to happen.
Howdy neighbor. Hudson, FL here. As you know, many of us in FL look for ease of concealability with the wardrobe being mostly light weight shorts and t-shirts or equivalent. Just made for Mexican carry.

And I agree. I bought that Taurus because it was cheap. Indeed it was!
 

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Depending on the person you are aquainting with firearm's, recoil sensative or not....I have found that starting the person out with a smaller caliber gives the shooter confidence in themselves and they can enjoy the shooting experience...more shooting equals a better more knowledgable shooter..
I have a KT P32 that really fit's that bill...Small, manageable, conceals well...
So my vote would be for a KT P32, at least for a entry level inexpensive pistol..At a later time they might want to step up to larger caliber one..
Even if they do, I would be surprised if they did not keep the P32..
 

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There's more to it than the shooting at the range with whoever. The safe manipulation of the weapon is the biggie. That would include loading,unloading,checking clear, clearing a malfunction & all the rest. Is the lady in question a 'gun gal'.

Not to stereotype but most ladies I've shot with aren't into guns as much as the average glocktalker. I'm just talking averages here. I know some may spend all day at 'thecorneredcat' & similar sites. JMHO
 

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There's more to it than the shooting at the range with whoever. The safe manipulation of the weapon is the biggie. That would include loading,unloading,checking clear, clearing a malfunction & all the rest. Is the lady in question a 'gun gal'.

Not to stereotype but most ladies I've shot with aren't into guns as much as the average glocktalker. I'm just talking averages here. I know some may spend all day at 'thecorneredcat' & similar sites. JMHO
I stressed safety to her throughout our session. She was good with this. Only a couple of times of me telling her that her finger was on the trigger when it shouldn't have been was all it took for her to learn. I did show her how to fieldstrip both pistols, although she will not wind up with either. I didn't get into clearing malfunctions, and there was none in my pistols. Can't get everything into one session. :) She is not a "gun gal" yet. She could become one, I believe.
 

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Before I offer her the option to shoot a USP or XD or whatever - I need to see some pics!


She needs a simple S&W Model 36, or one of the variants. A simple short barreled DA/SA revolver. Then go over all the safe storage & handling issues.
I hate this comment. But just for laughs - why oh why is a Model 36 the ultimate gun for this woman?


Sounds like she is doing all the right things. I might suggest looking into used glock/M&P/XD etc....or Kahr or whatever floats her boat. I do agree that spending more if you are only getting one is the way to go.
 
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