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Scope on a muzzleloader?

Discussion in 'Hunting, Fishing & Camping' started by vart, Oct 3, 2004.

  1. vart

    vart

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    I recently moved to Iowa, where my 3 deer, elk, and bear rifles are now simply conversation pieces;Q .
    I had a CVA .54 cal. Mackinaw traditional muzzleloader that I haven't shot in 10 years, so I decided to use that to hunt this season, rather than buying a shotgun.
    I took the ML to the range and after an hour of getting 8-12" groups at 50 yds. I decided that a scope was in order.
    I ordered a CVA scope mount and scavanged a 3x9 off of my .257 Roberts and mounted it on my ML.
    Now I feel like I commited an atrocity;g .
    I was capable of 3" groups at 70 yds. with this gun 10 years ago. Now, my eyes are only capable of horrid groups that I don't feel comfortable going into the field with.
    What would you do?
    Would you keep the scope for the sake of humane and accurate kills? Or would you just buy a shotgun for deer hunting and scope that, leaving the traditional-weapon season to people who can use them as intended?
     
  2. vafish

    vafish

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    Did your groups get better after putting the scope on?

    If so what does it matter what we think. You are the one that would have to track the wounded deer.

    A traditionalist isn't going to like me hunting with an in-line anyways. (mine isn't scoped, yet)

    And I'm sure someone would scream about my home made cammo paint job using the 3 red neck primary colors of Primer Red, Primer Gray, and Primer Black. But that stainless steel TC was just too bright in the woods for me.
     

  3. RJ Schuknecht

    RJ Schuknecht

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    Keep the scope and hunt. Don`t worry about what the traditionalist think about it.

    Like vafish said, they won`t like my inline either.
     
  4. noway

    noway

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    Keep the scope if it helps. I getting a scope for a Tominator shotgun muzzleloader and getting ready for out turkey season.

    BTW: Also make sure you get a BlackPowder/SHOTGUN scope and you don't really need anything with any magnification power.
     
  5. vart

    vart

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    I took the CVA to the range today and had a heck of a time sighting it in.
    I was getting nice groups at 50 yds, then moved back to 100 yds. It's amazing how much a muzzleloader is affected by the extra 50 yds.

    Plus, I'm not sure how many rounds you can fire through a muzzleloader before the barrel starts getting fouled and throws everything off.

    I was trying to get it dialed in, and my groups were around 10" at 100 yds. I know I was aiming at the exact same spot since I had the scope on 9X and was using a rest.

    The first 10 rounds seemed to be grouping very nicely, then things started going all over the place :( .

    I'll have to bring my brush and some soapy water to the range next time to clean it out midway through my range session.
     
  6. StockGlock23

    StockGlock23 Hilarious!

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    Is this normal for traditional style MLs? My inline can do a 2.5-3 inchs group at 100 yds. I have a Traditions .54 cal with a Tasco 3-9x40 Pronghorn scope. I shoot 100 grains of Pyrodex and a 295 gr. Powerbelt all lead hollowpoints. I thought traditional MLs could do at least 4-5 inches.
     
  7. buckfever34

    buckfever34

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    This will go strongly agains the traditionalist but if I were you this is what I'd do...

    If you can save up some $ I would purchase an inline muzzleloader. These vary greatly in prices and it does not take a $600 TC Encore to kill a deer. Also, you are allowed to use a blackpowder weapon for both shotgun and muzzleloader seasons so you can pull double duty with one weapon which is much easier to load and clean and is also more accurate.

    The bottome line is 60 to 75 yards is the maximum distance for open sights in most applications. When you are aiming much beyond this distance the front sight seems to "cover up" the entire animal. Scopes help greatly, but like the guy mentioned in a previous post you want a low-power shotgun/ML scope. In addition, these scopes will withstand the recoil better and will be less likely to lose zero.

    With a 150 grain pelleted powder charge and some of the nice saboted bullets muzzloaders are effective tools out to 150 yards. Some will even say farther than that but I won't risk it.

    I have taken several deer in the past with my ML. At 100 yards I get 3" groups. I have a Knight Disc Extreme. Use three 50 grain pellets. And Barnes Red Hot 250 grain sabots.

    Whether traditionalist or not, it is better to have a weapon you are confident you can make a "clean" kill with.

    Sorry this post is so long, hope it helps.

    Clint Waskom
     
  8. vart

    vart

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    Mine can, but not after 20+ shots through it without cleaning.
     
  9. StockGlock23

    StockGlock23 Hilarious!

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    This is a question for anybody who uses the magnun charges in their MLs. Do you really get a good use of all that powder when using 150 grains of pyrodex? I use one hundred grains and if I go any larger I am finding unburnt powder in the snow in front of me. I use the #209 shotshell primers so I am positive that ignition is not the issue. I also am using a 24" barrel. I understand that the 28" barrels may make good use of the extra powder but can 4" really translate to efficent use of 50 more grains of powder?
     
  10. StockGlock23

    StockGlock23 Hilarious!

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    Well I understand that without cleaning groups tend to increase. My ML can only do about 6-7 maybe 8 if I feel like stretching it without dancing the bullet around. I thought you meant that it would do this from totally clean.
     
  11. vart

    vart

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    Yeah, I had no idea that the groups would get so bad so quickly;P .

    I'm a total novice at this muzzleloading thing, but it is kinda fun;)
     
  12. Michigun

    Michigun Miss Michigan?

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    EVERY muzzleloader shooter should read the following article on how to keep your gun’s accuracy from your 1st shot to your 50th shot! (It works!!!)

    The “Spit Patch” Technique
     
  13. noway

    noway

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    agreed, doing 20plus shots and expecting good accuracy is a hope and a wish if you don't swipe th barrel. Most muzzleloaders would find it hard if not possible to ram a projectile down a bore if you are using straight BP vrs a susbsitute and still they would foul up and make seating a projectile pretty much difficult.

    I don't lick my patchs but do place a few solvent and swipe the bore 2-3 pass in between shots and my encore has made a few 3" groups @ 100yrds, if I'm steady behind the trigger. I use pyrodex behind all of my charges and just recently bought triple7s just to give it a try in 2 of the mzl. I'm still out investigating if triple7s is all that it claims to be.
     
  14. Michigun

    Michigun Miss Michigan?

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    I find that it is!
     
  15. vafish

    vafish

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    I can't believe a person from Michigan would suggest that method.

    Obviously never hunted in the cold and had a "Spit Patch" freeze in the barrel.

    I do agree that 777 is all it claims to be. It's all I use in my muzzle loaders now. (well I may shoot off the couple pounds of Pyrodex I have sitting around just for fun)
     
  16. noway

    noway

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    {I can't believe a person from Michigan would suggest that method.}

    now that's would be very true for the Michigan folks. LOL.
     
  17. vafish

    vafish

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    I grew up in Minnesota.

    15 degrees on opening morning is not unheard of.

    One shot out of a muzzle loader doesn't warm it up much, and by the time you run that spit patch down the barrel it's cooled back off enough to freeze the patch and ramrod in the barrel.

    If it's above freezing outside I use a spit patch between shots.
     
  18. bustedknee

    bustedknee The Snowflakes have invaded GT

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    I shoot a stainless Encore. 777 pellets, 209 primer, and power belt bullets. 2 pellets = 100 grains and give me 1500 fps. 3 pellets = 150 grains and give me 2100 fps.
    Accuracy is less than 2 inches at 100 yards.

    Nuff said?
     
  19. StockGlock23

    StockGlock23 Hilarious!

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    And here I stand...

    Corrected!

    I would love to get my hands on a chrono. I just can't afford one
     
  20. Michigun

    Michigun Miss Michigan?

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    Believe it.

    Michigan’s muzzleloading season is in mid December so “cold” is an understatement… I’ve NEVER once had a “Spit Patch” freeze in my barrel, not once… I don’t even see how that could happen. In fact I’m going to say that it will not happen when done as described & that your statement is down right ridiculous.

    (FYI, I sight-in/shoot how I hunt therefore I sight-in/shoot either just before muzzleloading or just after muzzleloading season (COLD weather!)… needless to say there have been MANY opportunities to have a “Spit Patch” freeze in my barrel(s)… hasn’t happened… has it actually happened to you vafish or is this something that you’ve dreamt up?)

    If you’ve actually had a “Spit Patch” freeze in your barrel vafish (which I’m truly doubting here) then you ARE doing something wrong! (Possibly your jag is too small in diameter or your patches are too thin?)