SBR patrol rifle studies/articles?

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by rockapede, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. rockapede

    rockapede

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    Anyone have links to articles or studies related to SBR effectiveness (with expanding rather than fragmenting ammo), range, accuracy, etc? My new admin isn't a huge fan of SBRs and appears to be looking to change our policy. That said, it appears he'll consider otherwise if provided with documentation that would support SBR use. Obviously, I have offered to demonstrate my personal SBR's abilities but it's a sample of one.

    I've found some stuff but the vast majority of testing done/documented on the subject has been by anonymous posters on places like m4carbine.net and ar15.com. I doubt that will fly, regardless of the quality of the information.

    Help a brother out! I'm happy to provide an email address via PM if anyone has stuff saved in PDF or whatever. Documentation of your own department's testing would be awesome if anyone is willing to share; I'll provide my creds and anything gathered will only be used internally at my agency.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  2. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    No articles to provide, but off the top of my head, a patrol officer really will never need effectiveness beyond 75-100 yards.
     
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  3. Kahr_Glockman

    Kahr_Glockman

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    Man, I did the research about SBR issues back in 2010. The only issues that occur is that you lose effectiveness of the 5.56 rounds out of a short barrel in the lighter weight bullets. The 64 grainers tend to be the lightest rounds that work well but the 77gr are the best.

    SPDSNYPER may have the information more readily available.
     
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  4. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Doh ?

    If the loss of velocity is your concern:


    The 223/5.56 velocity seems to be adequate down to 10"-11" barrel length for most bullet weights. I think the DEA has gone to 14-1/2" barrels as well as the Marine Corps (with the 62 gr SOST, which I believe is "rated" for 10-1/2" barrels).

    As far as the "need" for mobility of an SBR you can also look to the DEA, Marines, FBI (SBS's & MP-5's) as well a other LE agencies.
     
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  5. G29guy06

    G29guy06

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    Good Luck
     
  6. rockapede

    rockapede

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    Great stuff, thanks!
     
  7. rockapede

    rockapede

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    Meaning just about any soft point load would work out of just about any SBR 10.5" and longer... I just have to find someone that's documented it, lol!
     
  8. CAcop

    CAcop

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    You can find plenty or info about the average sniper shot being under 100 yards.

    What I also think about is the average perimeter spot on a barricaded subject or longest shot in an active shooter. Think of any barricaded subject calls you have and measure the distances on Google Earth. It will hit home with the chief when you have actual distances from actual calls. Then think about the longest shot you may have in your city. A factory floor or big box store. US it is costco. Ours is well within the effective range of 75 grain TAP even from our shorties.
     
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  9. razdog76

    razdog76 Heavy Mettle

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    Have you considered contacting Hornady? They will probably gladly furnish video and data from their products out of SBR.

    Another issue that became problematic with full size rifles for policing was that my Taurus trunk was completely of other equipment. Having a SBR with a collapsing stock allowed it to fit. As the others have keyed in on, inside a house, or trailer makes SBR velocity irrelevant.
     
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  10. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Hornady came to our department for an ammo demonstration because we have an indoor range. It made it easier to keep the gel at the required temp. They also have a special trailer for it. They shot our ammo, including the Winchester Ranger for pisrols, into blocks with the FBI barriers. We invited area agencies and got a few to come. They have a lot of data. They have a lot of choices for 5.56. Everything from 55 grain solid copper to 75 grain TAP. They don't have a whole lot of choices with pistol rounds but rifle rounds you can get your ammo set up for your needs.
     
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  11. rockapede

    rockapede

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    Great stuff, everyone. I submitted my proposal this morning before leaving. I included lots of the information and ideas given here. The Hornady suggestion in particular was a gold mine; they have lots of SBR info available. We issue Federal rifle ammo but the basic concepts should translate. Thanks again!
     
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  12. collim1

    collim1

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    One of our guys made a case for SBRs for our tac team a few years ago. He had a PowerPoint done up with some relevant ballistics info and ballistics gel testing. The 75g TAP load was his recommendation for the SBRs.

    I will see if he still has it and is willing to share. No promises.

    It also had a case made for us mere mortal patrol guys to be allowed to carry rifles. Most of the information for that case was to dispel the old rumor of rifle over penetration vs shotgun pellets and handgun rounds. Plus the increased accuracy and range of rifles being safer than buckshot.

    Admin denied the SBRs but did accept a policy allowing some of the old farts to carry rifles, but not all of us.
     
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  13. walkin' trails

    walkin' trails

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    When my issues AR was refitted with a 10.5 last year, the only thing that was mentioned was that accuracy at 125 yards and beyond with duty ammo would fall off. Within 125 yards, performance was not noticibly different from the original 14.5. I haven't shot it at distances beyoubd 50 yards and haven't noticed any difference. Rate of twist was still 1-9. Duty ammo is a Federal 62 grain bonded SP.

    Consider reaching out to the FBI firearms unit at Quantico for data, cause I would imagine they've tested the SBRs for their own use or for other agencies.
     
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  14. texmex

    texmex

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    An SBR that you can line up on target has much better accuracy and bullet performance than a standard rifle does when it is hung up in a doorway or inside the vehicle and can't be brought to bear.